Keeping between the lines

[NevadaNick]

I’m with btft. I was taught in drivers ed in high school to place butt in the center of the road and its worked great for 44+ years now.

[FL420]

Originally Posted by BTFT

his butt will be in the center of the road when the vehicle is centered in the lane.

Please explain to me how that is physically possible using scientific data instead of unsupported opinions.

Originally Posted by BTFT

Yes I meant lane...and it works but you must be looking FAR down the road. Many here back me up on that.

Perhaps many untrained, poorly trained or self-taught drivers may back you up but a well-trained, highly experienced driver with a PROFESSIONAL ATTITUDE (not just a wheel holder who happens to make money driving) probably won't back you up.

Originally Posted by BTFT

All lanes on US and interstate highways are capable of fitting all standard width vehicles with their mirrors with plenty of room for both with plenty of clearance.

Unless they are under construction or repair or first responders have a lane blocked. "Plenty" is not a precise word allowing "plenty" of room for interpretation. I prefer to deal in probable and demonstrable facts.

Originally Posted by BTFT

When vehicles have problems is when they are hugging the center line too closely or actually going over it. Actually it is the REAR of your vehicle that is most likely to make contact if your front tires are on the center line then your rears may very well be over it, depending on the size and configuration of your vehicle.

Having driven box trucks, semi's, 15 and 21 passenger vans, 10 passenger stretch limousines, 45 foot city transit buses, long nose and transit-style 45 foot school buses I have never seen or experienced that. The only way I can see that happening is with a tractor whose steer and drive wheels are not as wide as the trailer's tires.

Originally Posted by BTFT

I routinely drive a 45 foot motorcoach in downtown Fairbanks (and all over Alaska) which is a VERY tight city with many challenging turns and very narrow lanes with signs and even telephone poles encroaching on the roadway. To do this you must understand the physical limits of the vehicle. US highways and interstates are no brainers.

Having driven 45 foot city transit buses in Boulder 8 hours a day 5 days a week I'm quite familiar with the challenges of urban driving in a large vehicle. A lot more challenging is driving a 45 foot school bus loaded with kids on often unpaved one lane mountain roads in the snow in the pre-dawn darkness. No cherry-picked safety-surveyed routes to make it safe and easy. Ya gotta go where the kids live, twice a day, round trips.
I was very fortunate to have had a month of excellent classroom and on the road training in the long nose school bus plus a day of additional training to qualify to drive a transit school bus(similar to a 45 foot Class A RV.) To drive in the mountains required another week of classroom training and driving in the mountains, seeking out a thunderstorm to put a check in the adverse weather box and putting on and removing tire chains.
Now, I don't mean to brag but as Dizzy Dean, Muhammad Ali and a few others have said:
"It ain't bragging if you done it."
When I finished taking my first CDL Class B driving test in 1997 or 98 the examiner told me she had been a Colorado State Certified CDL examiner for 32 years and she had never given any applicant a perfect score on the driving test before me.

[FL420]

Originally Posted by NevadaNick

I’m with btft. I was taught in drivers ed in high school to place butt in the center of the road and its worked great for 44+ years now.

High school driver's ed? Really?
If you're ever a party to a traffic accident that ends up in court I highly recommend you not mention that "butt in the center of the road" theory in open court or in front of your opponent's attorney.

[Dutch Star Don]

"Grandparacer"......Take your idea, make it into a decal that is easily placed and make your fortune.....Shark Tank!

[DbleDutch]

Originally Posted by FL420

I'm sitting here having a good chuckle imagining some of you guys sitting behind your big steering wheels leaning into the curves and counter steering.[emoji23]

As another rider, I'm chuckling with you imagining them shifting their butt in their seat and selecting the perfect apex line in corners.


Back to subject: yes your instinct follows your line of sight. Keep it far down the road and everything follows. Just do not over drive the vehicle directly in front of you.

Ride and Drive safe long.

[Renipladlo]

I have had CDL training, and they teach you how to drive big rig, everyone should have to take some kind of classroom and practical training so you learn how to do it. I also have two Videos on driving RV Education 101, here is the link to them, watching the ones on driving Class A will really give you great ideas. I found the example on YouTube difficult to follow, the DVD are really much easier to understand.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=rv+educat...b_sb_ss_i_1_13

[Peto]

OP ..What if there is no center line in the construction zone?

[engine103]

[QUOTE=FL420;4759157]I'm still not getting your point about the butt in the center of the road(I assume you mean lane instead of road.)

FL420, Butt in the middle of the lane is not a physical thing, it's purely optical. Just like dots on a windshield are not actually on the center line, it's optical. Dot's and marks are a crutch and someday that crutch might get kicked out from under you.

[Grandparacer]

Lots of great comments and suggestions here, thanks. I did not intend in the OP to suggest that people use my idea to drive with full time but to use as an aid when encountering construction zones or that narrow old bridge on a 2 lane highway. Adjusting a small amount right or left for these short periods using the spots on the windshield can really lower the stress. Anyway, it helps me. Looking down the road a 1/4 mile is always a good idea on the open road.
Dutch Star Don, I thought of that but it would be too easy to copy with 15 cents worth of black tape.
John

[doc]

TeamFoxy is right. Pick out ahead and steer for that location. Construction zones are a bit different for me. I know the lane is wider than the MH and towed. My target space for the driver side corner of the MH is a spot inside the barrier or the white line maybe a foot or more inside the line. This target spot moves depending on traffic.

[BTFT]

Originally Posted by FL420

Please explain to me how that is physically possible using scientific data instead of unsupported opinions.

Perhaps many untrained, poorly trained or self-taught drivers may back you up but a well-trained, highly experienced driver with a PROFESSIONAL ATTITUDE (not just a wheel holder who happens to make money driving) probably won't back you up.

Despite your impressive resume you have missed several important concepts or misunderstood what I wrote.


First: I did mis-write. I should have written LANE not road for clarity. But the fact that if you are in a larger vehicle like a class 8 truck or bus or motor home if you VISUALLY (as opposed to measurably) put your butt in the center of the lane your vehicle will be centered in that lane...


Why does this "Rule of Thumb" work and why has it lasted as handed-down wisdom over many years? Because It is a visual illusion of sorts. Because of your height off the road and your position in the vehicle there is created a visual "Delta" which makes the center of the lane appear as if it is running directly under you. This has been used since I was a kid moving my family's tractor trailers around and later driving them. (I grew up in a family that owned a large trucking company (moving and storage) that spanned 9 states). This is exactly how my Dad got me to get and keep the truck in the proper place in it's lane.


But it is only a TOOL for beginners and I thought that was apparent...especially to those who are more experienced.


Once again go back to the OP's picture and it tells the story...The center of that lane appears to run directly under the position of the driver and from the position of the drivers eyes it is even more apparent.


Now once you learn how big your vehicle really is (as opposed to how it "feels " or seems in your minds-eye) and have more experience driving you will hit the middle of the road by habit/instinct and attention to your driving.


Now the second thing that was misunderstood or not understood was "Off Tracking" of the rear wheels/axles.


It is simple geometry that your front wheels scribe one radius in a turn while your rear axles which can be 30 feet or more behind you, depending on the vehicle, will scribe a much different, smaller radius.


Now visualize this: Think about making a turn with your MH, bus or tractor trailer. Let say you are making a right turn. You must go straight or "extend out" far enough before starting your turn to be able to clear the curb with your rear axles/tires. The reason you have to do this is because your rear axles do not follow in the same track as your front.


The same is true on a bend or turn in the road. If as I said you were making the mistake of hugging the center line too closely it is definite that your rear axles will cross that line. ( the degree if impingement depending here on the distance from one set of axles to another). If you need more proof just get on any freeway with lots of trucks on it and I guarantee it wont be long before a tractor-trailer trailer will cross a dividing line as the driver keeps too close with his front axle to that line. We have all experience it.


If you still need proof do this: find a large flat dirt lot take your rig there and make a wide gentle turn to either side. Then GOAL, Get Out and Look at the tire tracks. Right there in the dirt will be your proof your rear axles will scribe a definitely smaller radius than your front.


I think it is VERY important in these kinds of posts to be accurate with the information given.


To the OP. I know you meant well when you put the tape on your windshield and it was a clever idea, but it is seriously a potentially dangerous thing to do. Your attention MUST be out far ahead of you and if it is it will be much easier to know you are centered. That tape will constantly bring your visual attention down and close which is not a good thing.


As for knowing where you are in construction zones or other areas with no lines. If you practice what the majority say here in this thread which I am repeating and agree with you will be ok. Also CUT your speed, slow down and resist the temptation to focus on those cones or barrels and look where you want to go.

[engine103]

Originally Posted by FL420

Perhaps many untrained, poorly trained or self-taught drivers may back you up but a well-trained, highly experienced driver with a PROFESSIONAL ATTITUDE (not just a wheel holder who happens to make money driving) probably won't back you up.

When I finished taking my first CDL Class B driving test in 1997 or 98 the examiner told me she had been a Colorado State Certified CDL examiner for 32 years and she had never given any applicant a perfect score on the driving test before me.

Got my class A with doubles and Haz Mat in 69 and spent many years in the fire department as driving instructor for Engines, Trucks and Rescue Units. Before that, a few years OTR in the Pacific Northwest. I guess I was a paid wheel holder, but a damn good one. Drive safe, Keep your butt in the middle and always wave as you go by. (never did drive a school bus though, they may be different).

[Dutch Star Don]

I've been driving and towing RV's since I was 16, it doesn't make me a professional driver as some here say they are, but I can handle any RV you throw at me. I learned through experience, which is what many will do as they drive their rig more often and get comfortable.

[FL420]

BTFT, with whom I agree far more often than I disagree on many subjects, first mentioned emulating professionals in post #13. I mentioned a professional attitude in post #30. I'm afraid some folks have taken that personally as a criticism. That was not my intent.

There are subtle but substantial and important differences between being "a professional" who is paid for doing something they claim they are well qualified to do and being "professional" by having a professional attitude, whether they are paid for what they do or not.

A true professional can be a high school dropout. It depends on whether or not he develops and practices a professional attitude. A PhD holder may think he's a professional but if he doesn't have a professional attitude he is taking money under false pretenses. Now, if he's a certified RV technician......... insert your own horror stories here.

This article gives an excellent description of what and why true professionals do what they do much better than I can.

https://www.mindtools.com/pages/arti...ssionalism.htm

I consider it my duty and personal obligation when doing anything that could possibly hurt or kill someone else, or teaching someone how to do something that if done improperly could hurt or kill someone, to do it as a true professional would. Whether flying a 250,000# airliner or a 75# hang glider; driving a 33,000# motorhome or a 3,000# car, I feel I owe it to society to do all I can to learn all I can and practice all I can to do it safely.

That's where I'm coming from.