Legal question: Do RV shops need to meet codes?

[RussOnTheRoad]

I'm not sure I phrased my question clearly in the post title... what I am wondering is whether or not RV shops that perform custom installations such as catalytic heaters have to meet some sort of government code in order for the installation to be legal and if so what that code may be and where it can be found.

I am also wondering if a retail customer asks a shop to perform an installation that he doesn't know won't meet some applicable code and the shop perfoms the work, is the shop in violation and have liabilities or does it fall on the customer? Does the customer have the right to a refund?

Thanks.

[mobilemike]

Codes are established by the city or county or state for buildings within their jurisdiction. There are few if any codes for the housing portion of an RV. There are federal requirements for the vehicle portion and "on road" items like size and lighting.

However I know of no codes for installing systems in the RV.

There are Industry standards that are specific to types of items. Electrical for example has a huge list of industry standards. Heating also.

Your example of compensation for improper instillation would be argued in CIVIL court.

[RussOnTheRoad]

Originally Posted by mobilemike

Codes are established by the city or county or state for buildings within their jurisdiction. There are few if any codes for the housing portion of an RV. There are federal requirements for the vehicle portion and "on road" items like size and lighting.

However I know of no codes for installing systems in the RV.

There are Industry standards that are specific to types of items. Electrical for example has a huge list of industry standards. Heating also.

Your example of compensation for improper instillation would be argued in CIVIL court.

Thanks much. I appreciate it.

[Spdracr39]

Just like an auto repair shop You can be certified but you don't have to be. If you do it wrong you can be held liable for damages and injuries but it would have to go through the court system as stated above.

[Ray,IN]

I really doubt any reputable RV repair shop would perform modifications that would put them in legal jeopardy. As to legality of modifications, RVIA adopted the NFPA standards for RV construction, which are written into law by being included in the Federal Register.

[RussOnTheRoad]

Originally Posted by Ray,IN

I really doubt any reputable RV repair shop would perform modifications that would put them in legal jeopardy. As to legality of modifications, RVIA adopted the NFPA standards for RV construction, which are written into law by being included in the Federal Register.

Reputable being the operative word, and sometimes, I imagine, even reputable shops may make a mistake that exposes them to legal recourse.

I confess to knowing nothing about the Federal Register other than what I gleaned by glancing at its home page for a minute or two. I didn't get the feeling that things became law by being written into the Register--I thought laws had to be passed by legislators--but again I confess my ignorance as to how these things work.

[charliez]

Usually the mfg of a product for an rv will spell out things like how to mount it, clearances for ventilation, wire size requirements. Will the installer follow that is up to the person doing the install.


There are some mfg standards like when you see a rv with two doors. That usually mean there is a slide that when "IN" it can trap someone away form the exit door. You rv will also have to have at least one window that you can push out. it will have a red handle and will swing out and drop to the ground.


There will never be a code inspection like you get when building a house to insure it's wired right at your dealer. Main thing is if you take it somewhere to have something done, look at the reputation and history of the shop. RV shops fold fast, especially bad ones. The biggest issue is the time it takes for an rv shop to get something done. They are known mostly for letting things just sit.

[Ray,IN]

Russ,

Here are the RVIA INSA standards manufacturers must follow, they are adopted from the NFPA standards, which were published in the Federal Register, which then made them federal law. The Federal Register is a record of the official proceedings of congress and the President, anything published within has been adopted and approved by congress.

Unlike legal business organizations, an individual may do anything they like to their RV without being exposed to a lawsuit. To the best of my knowledge RV's are not subject to local building codes as long as the wheels and hitch are not removed.

[Gary RVRoamer]

However I know of no codes for installing systems in the RV.

Then some education is in order.

There are many of them, mostly the same or near the same as apply to residential construction and/or mobile home construction. As already mentioned, the exact codes that apply are determined by the state and municipality. Of particular significance is NFPA 1192 (fire and gas safety) and the National Electrical code (as it applies to mobile installations). The RVIA has established a set of standards (mostly by reference to other standards documents) for RVs and Park Models and all 50 states have accepted those as sufficient for selling an RV in the state.

Shop or even individuals that modify or add to the systems have legal obligation to do so safely and the applicable codes is the legal standard they will be measured against IF they are sued for negligence. That would be a civil court lawsuit. In general, though, they are not legally required to get local permits or pass inspections as they might if upgrading a fixed site building.

[DariusB]

In my 37 years as a General Contractor. The bottom line for things that were NOT spelled out specifically in a plumbing, electrical, or other building code , the inspector ALWAYS defaulted to the "Manufacturers installation instructions":. This left LOTS of room for interpretation and I had several "discussions" down town with powers that be over interpretations.

[mobilemike]

There is a huge legal difference between government codes and industry standards enacted by the self governing body of the industry.

There is no post production inspection or approval for systems in the non commercial RV industry. Compliance with industry standards for proper instillation is handled through the civil court system.

RVIA is a private entity made up of the manufactures representatives who voluntarily enact industry standards for production and limited systems installations. A repair shop is not required to be a member of RIVA or follow their standards. Although it is a good idea and a good shop will. Those standards are for production.

[Gary RVRoamer]

RVIA is a private entity made up of the manufactures representatives who voluntarily enact industry standards for production and limited systems installations.

That's true, but so is the National Electrical Code and the National Fire Protection Association. Technically, the NEC is NFPA 70. All such codes gain force of law when they are adopted by a government agency, e.g. as part of a state or regional building code.


The RVIA is the ANSI standards authority for RVs and all the US states have adopted some version of the RVIA codes as their standard for RV construction. The states have also adopted some version of the NEC and other NFPA standards for various purposes. Mostly such standards apply to new construction, or, in the case of mobile units, new units brought into the state and sold there. Major remodeling of fixed site buildings usually falls under the building codes, but rarely (if ever) is the remodeling of a mobile unit subject to them. You would have to examine each states laws to be sure how they may apply, but as a practical matter there is no permiting or inspection for upgrades to mobile units. As MobileMike says, that is left to the civil courts for after-the-fact resolution of disputes.

[CoachDitka]

Originally Posted by RussOnTheRoad

Reputable
I confess to knowing nothing about the Federal Register other than what I gleaned by glancing at its home page for a minute or two. I didn't get the feeling that things became law by being written into the Register--I thought laws had to be passed by legislators--but again I confess my ignorance as to how these things work.

Quick civics lesson...

The way it's supposed to work is as you described. Congress passes the laws and nothing becomes law without a vote in the house and senate.

What we are talking about here are not actually laws per se, but rather regulations which have the force of law.

The way things work today is that congress refuses to do its job and actually vote on laws but instead gives different agencies the power to regulate that agency's area of expertise and the regulations they pass have the force of law.

There's a lot of specifics as to how the regulations get passed, but the long story short is that Congress votes on the creation of X agency to do Y thing. Part of that vote is the authorization of that agency to create regulations related to the thing they are regulating.

There is a process for public input on the regulations, and congress retains oversight and could override the regulations at any time, but the fact remains that the regulations the agency passes have the force of law even if it wasn't enacted by congress, because congress authorized the agency to make the regulation. In theory the type of harm these "quasi-laws" can do is limited because they are limited in scope; but in practice, it takes a long time to correct a bad regulation and justice delayed is justice denied.

So I don't really know what regulations might be in place for RVs but conceivably they could be regulated as vehicles, as homes, as both, or in their own category altogether. It's a classic example of why big government is so problematic because there's clearly a potential for them to be regulated in contradictory ways by different bodies, and it's impossible to know from reading one set of regulations whether there are other sets of regulations that also need to be followed.

[twogypsies]

OP: You specifically mentioned catalytic heaters. For that installation I'd recommend that you go to a propane dealer, especially if you need piping installed. That's what we did.