Montana LLC question

[fansill]

This is a very interesting thread and I agree with Swampdog on a theoretical level. I currently live in Mass. and have been following the news about their "crackdown" on Mass. residents who formed the Montana LLCs. The officials in Massachusetts claimed that the residents of Massachusetts violated the law by operating their Montana registered vehicles on Massachusetts roads for more than 30 days in each year. I believe that they included storing or parking the RVs at a residence in Massachusetts for more than 30 days. That is how they "documented" them. The official state report included pictures of the RVs with Montana plates parked in Massachusetts. If they are using this criteria to establish a mandatory Massachusetts sales and excise tax, then the hundreds of thousands of New Hampshire (and other border state) vehicles that drive on Massachusetts roads should also be taxed...

And how about this scenario for an addition to Swampdogs formula???...Do all of his Montana LLC steps, and then garage or store the RV in a non-Massachusetts location. I for one, live in Massachusetts but have a number of facilities to store or park my RV outside of the state. I could bring the RV to my Massachusetts home to load or unload, and limit my travels within Massachusetts to less than 30 days each year. Heck...Massachusetts is a small state and if they want to tax me to death, I will spend my camping and traveling dollars in others states.

Now that being hypothisized...I am still not sure that I would want to risk being the first Massachusetts resident to risk a court hearing to test this plan....LOL!!!

[swampdog2]

the only other thing I will add to this is If my state comes after me then they will only collect it after a judge tells me i have to pay it.A L.L.C. is just that a Limited Liability company you don't own anything the llc owns it you are just using it for a trip,and that's what they have to prove you are not doing, and they have to be careful what they prove in court as it could come back to haunt them with company's that operate across state lines with plates from other states on their trucks but with offices in that state ,by that i mean they couldn't keep a truck from texas in mass if they have a office in mass

[Iron Man]

I don't know how a state can go back and get sales tax for a RV registered legally in another state unless the state determind the RV resides in the state. Then you have a fight on your hands. Several states are documenting through pictures that the RV is "residing" in that state for a period of time then they want the owner to transfer title,insurace and get a tag for that state. That seems hard to argue especially in court. The only answer is to move the RV around and to abide by the laws that the state has in place or park the RV in a building.

[Shomeyankee]

No matter what anyone says, the "Montana LLC Game" has virtually come to an end. At the end of the day, all states are strapped for cash and revenues associated with this "loop hole" are huge and the states are now armed with technology that allows them to go after folks that are creating Montana LLC to avoid paying local taxes. The rules are so strict to actually make the LLC legit that I encourage everyone to suck it up and pay their local tax.

I have no doubt that this will solicit some comment from some current Montana LLC person that will justify and defend the use of the LLC, but I'm encouraging all new RV owners to heed my call and NOT pursue the Montana LLC.............Please learn from my $1100 mistake. I thought I was going to be so smart and avoid paying local tax so I created Montana LLC because it was what "everyone" was doing..............Then I received a notice from my state indicating that their records reflected that I had purchased motorhome and why had i not titled?? I immediately dissolved LLC and titled in local state and actually felt like a huge weight was lifted off my shoulders. The bottom line is that this is "cheating" no matter how you slice it. To those 1% of the folks that can truly pass muster as a legitimate LLC, good for you...........to everyone else, save yourself the potential tax/legal ramifications as well as the personal persecution that you will receive when others see those Montana tags on your RV.

[Iron Man]

Originally Posted by Shomeyankee

No matter what anyone says, the "Montana LLC Game" has virtually come to an end. At the end of the day, all states are strapped for cash and revenues associated with this "loop hole" are huge and the states are now armed with technology that allows them to go after folks that are creating Montana LLC to avoid paying local taxes. The rules are so strict to actually make the LLC legit that I encourage everyone to suck it up and pay their local tax.

I have no doubt that this will solicit some comment from some current Montana LLC person that will justify and defend the use of the LLC, but I'm encouraging all new RV owners to heed my call and NOT pursue the Montana LLC.............Please learn from my $1100 mistake. I thought I was going to be so smart and avoid paying local tax so I created Montana LLC because it was what "everyone" was doing..............Then I received a notice from my state indicating that their records reflected that I had purchased motorhome and why had i not titled?? I immediately dissolved LLC and titled in local state and actually felt like a huge weight was lifted off my shoulders. The bottom line is that this is "cheating" no matter how you slice it. To those 1% of the folks that can truly pass muster as a legitimate LLC, good for you...........to everyone else, save yourself the potential tax/legal ramifications as well as the personal persecution that you will receive when others see those Montana tags on your RV.

Maybe you should have had the LLC buy the motorhome instead of you, of course since you purchased the motorhome the state inquired why you have not titled the motorhome. I wonder if the states have the resources to check every motor vehicle purchase by a LLC or corporation to see in which state a vehicle winds up. I would expect the state to figure the vehicle would wind up in Montana and without physical proof how would they?

[GaryKD]

Hi Shomeyankee,
While I can understand your view, for yourself, before calling upon people to follow your lead, consider calling upon people to ensure they are following their state of residence laws. It is really as simple as that. There are states that are trying to tax their way to success. Florida, takes a different view. They recognized a long time ago that having residents of the state gains more long term revenue than treating current residents "by the book". And the book is tax, tax and tax some more.

Different states take different views and pass laws accordingly. Florida remain one of the most competitive states for taxes. I obey the law and pay taxes the law requires me to pay. But not one penny more.

If one is able able to change one's state of residency, consider Florida. More money stays in your pocket, that's for sure.

[Norm4015]

Originally Posted by Shomeyankee

No matter what anyone says, the "Montana LLC Game" has virtually come to an end.

I recently spoke to a Montana lawyer and he said business is booming for Montana LLCs. Where did you get your information about this "Game.?"

Originally Posted by Shomeyankee

Then I received a notice from my state indicating that their records reflected that I had purchased motorhome and why had i not titled??

As Iron Man said, your mistake was buying the motorhome in your name (and address?). My LLC bought my motorhome and car and my name or address is not on the title or registration. They were purchased by my LLC, in the name of my LLC, and the address is in Montana. I did everything legal so I have nothing to fear.

[a k]

No matter what anyone says, the "Montana LLC Game" has virtually come to an end. At the end of the day, all states are strapped for cash and revenues associated with this "loop hole" are huge and the states are now armed with technology that allows them to go after folks that are creating Montana LLC to avoid paying local taxes. The rules are so strict to actually make the LLC legit that I encourage everyone to suck it up and pay their local tax.

I have no doubt that this will solicit some comment from some current Montana LLC person that will justify and defend the use of the LLC, but I'm encouraging all new RV owners to heed my call and NOT pursue the Montana LLC.............Please learn from my $1100 mistake. I thought I was going to be so smart and avoid paying local tax so I created Montana LLC because it was what "everyone" was doing..............Then I received a notice from my state indicating that their records reflected that I had purchased motorhome and why had i not titled?? I immediately dissolved LLC and titled in local state and actually felt like a huge weight was lifted off my shoulders. The bottom line is that this is "cheating" no matter how you slice it. To those 1% of the folks that can truly pass muster as a legitimate LLC, good for you...........to everyone else, save yourself the potential tax/legal ramifications as well as the personal persecution that you will receive when others see those Montana tags on your RV.

Your right, if you did it to just save $1100, you made a mistake. You should of researched it a little better.

All Missouri dealers have to turn in all sales to the State. If it was an out of town purchase the state don't care. Only way is if you titled it in Montana and used your MO address or you financed it in your State. How could they even know about it? Maybe you could fill us in a little better.

[a k]

You think RV's are bad?

Read this>>AOPA Online: $26,000 tax bill: Maine's state of confusion

[Shomeyankee]

Originally Posted by Iron Man

Maybe you should have had the LLC buy the motorhome instead of you, of course since you purchased the motorhome the state inquired why you have not titled the motorhome. I wonder if the states have the resources to check every motor vehicle purchase by a LLC or corporation to see in which state a vehicle winds up. I would expect the state to figure the vehicle would wind up in Montana and without physical proof how would they?

LLC did purchase motorhome...........turns out, the state found out because I took out small loan

[Shomeyankee]

Originally Posted by GaryKD

Hi Shomeyankee,
While I can understand your view, for yourself, before calling upon people to follow your lead, consider calling upon people to ensure they are following their state of residence laws. It is really as simple as that. There are states that are trying to tax their way to success. Florida, takes a different view. They recognized a long time ago that having residents of the state gains more long term revenue than treating current residents "by the book". And the book is tax, tax and tax some more.

Different states take different views and pass laws accordingly. Florida remain one of the most competitive states for taxes. I obey the law and pay taxes the law requires me to pay. But not one penny more.

If one is able able to change one's state of residency, consider Florida. More money stays in your pocket, that's for sure.

Yes, states do differ and detailed research is warranted. I'm not trying to change the minds of existing Montana LLC folks.......I'm hoping to reach new Motorhome owners and make them fully aware of both the legal and ethical ramiifications. If you are the type of person, or should I say "LLC", that is fully prepared to push the envelope and defend yourself in court as well as to the millions of folks that have paid their local tax........than knock yourself and establish the Montana LLC..............(By the way, the new Montana Plates are an obnoxious retro blue color..........they are great conversation pieces when you're sitting around the fire in a campground.........be fully prepared to explain why you have Montana plates)

[Shomeyankee]

Originally Posted by a k

Your right, if you did it to just save $1100, you made a mistake. You should of researched it a little better.

All Missouri dealers have to turn in all sales to the State. If it was an out of town purchase the state don't care. Only way is if you titled it in Montana and used your MO address or you financed it in your State. How could they even know about it? Maybe you could fill us in a little better.

I purchased used motorhome out of state.............I created new Montana LLC and made it the buyer (That was what cost me $1100)...........I titled in name of LLC and then took out small loan with local Missouri bank. Come to find out, this was where state picked it up.

The reality is, this is only but one way the state could find out..............not to mention the jealous neighbor that see's the obnoxious blue Montana plates driving around in the state of Missouri and turns you in to the state because they are pulling a pop-up camper behind their dated truck and have paid all local tax...........Again, I'm not really interested in engaging in legal debate with all you folks that are existing Montana LLC owners.........you can justify, defend, debate all you want.....................bottom line is, you identified a tax loop hole and that is unfortunately what our complex tax system almost encourages us to do...............I'm simply trying to alert the new motorhome owner that they need to fully and thoroghly research both their individual states rules on this as well as their conscious...........The latter became the over-riding driver for me to march down and pay my local tax in full...............but we're all wired differently

[a k]

The problem is, they are now going to tax you every year as personal property. I'm sorry it didn't work out for you. If you could have taken a second mortage on your existing home and paid cash for your RV, they wouldn't of known. And you could have written the interest off on your MO taxes.

It seems a lot of people do without because of the never ending taxes. It doesn't do anyone any good.
The tax man wants to take all your money and do everything for you.

How do you think that ruler of Egypt got 70 Billion dollars? From the USA. Your tax dollars at work.

PS: 25% of the RV's in my park here in Mississippi have Montana plates.

[dieselclacker]

Originally Posted by Shomeyankee

Yes, states do differ and detailed research is warranted. I'm not trying to change the minds of existing Montana LLC folks.......I'm hoping to reach new Motorhome owners and make them fully aware of both the legal and ethical ramiifications. If you are the type of person, or should I say "LLC", that is fully prepared to push the envelope and defend yourself in court as well as to the millions of folks that have paid their local tax........than knock yourself and establish the Montana LLC..............(By the way, the new Montana Plates are an obnoxious retro blue color..........they are great conversation pieces when you're sitting around the fire in a campground.........be fully prepared to explain why you have Montana plates)

Just for information purposes, I am a resident of Montana, and have one of those "obnoxious retro blue color" plates on my motorhome and on each of my other vehicles. Montana has dozens of special interest plates in all colors and designs, available for a small additional cost when you are registering your vehicle. Check them at the Montana DMV site. Saving all those tax bucks by registering your motorhome in Montana should allow one to purchase one of these pretty plates instead of the "obnoxious blue one". Sheesh!!!

Dieselclacker