Most People

[Excesses]

And I mean biker by those non gang members who enjoy riding....

Give respect. Get respect.

If you’re so gutless to say something to someone when you don’t have the fortitude to say the same looking one in the eye and a step apart, then you’re a coward. Plain and simple.

Respect is everything. Give it. Get it.

Cheers 🍷

DJ

[astrnmrtom]

Yes, unfortunately I feel its a symptom of our digital - hidden behind the keyboard - age. I frequently say we have become a "society of outrage" where we say things and treat people in a way we'd wouldn't do in person. Some of it is the loss of tone and inflection in the written word, but the rest is a cultural change. Its a two headed beast where one head speaks it's mind, and the other head has become easily offended. It's about shouting the other person down, and pointing out just how wrong they are. It's the dark side of the everyday internet, and social media. It's why I frequently call it Anti Social Media. Its infectious too.

I remember when I was a kid something my grandmother would say to me when she didn't like my behavior was: "What would other people think if they saw you do that?" Today I think it's more common to say: "I don't care what anyone else thinks!"

[R.Wold]

Its more than just the digital age and anonymous social media communication. Theres more than a few here that seem compelled to debate, disprove, degrade, dispute, or otherwise denigrate either the OP or others. Rather than just answer a question or stay silent, Ive noticed this type quickly getting in their opinion on why you shouldn't have asked the question. Perhaps it makes them feel more relevant. Or maybe I just ask stupid questions. I don't know but Ive also seen some posters using preemptive disclaimers, such as “just my opinion, Im not interested in a debate”. This is a very telling development. Oh well...it would be nice if this could just be a positive source of freely shared ideas and information but I guess acrimony and ridicule come with the territory.

The good news is that Ive also seen a lot of kindness, consideration and some impressive patience (more than I can seem to muster at times), and for the most part positive input prevails.

Cheers!

[Old-Biscuit]

My Daddy instilled into me....."Say it/OWN it!"


That is how I have always carried myself.


Communication is difficult at best.....strictly via the written word W/O any previous in person interaction and what comes across is based on ones own perception which is biased....






Not sure we are all that different now......just less face to face time.

[Ray,IN]

Originally Posted by Itchytoe

One of the problems is that people are communicating more frequently through written methods rather than spoken ones, but our languages aren't any different than before. Human communication is largely non-verbal. Take the movie Wall-E as an example. The main character, Wall-E, (spoiler alert if you somehow haven't seen this wonderful movie) says about a dozen words through the whole movie, but everyone knows what he's thinking and feeling throughout the whole thing. One of the words he says is "Eve", the name of another character in the movie. He says it with a different inflection to denote curiosity, fear, affection, and desperation, but that would be written as "Eve!" in each of those cases. If you can't hear "Eve!" being pronounced, you can't tell if he is saying it in excitement, or fear, or anger, or desperation. It's all "Eve!" when written, but it's completely different every time it's spoken.

The same thing applies to what people write online. "You did it!" can be read as accusatory, or congratulatory, or even inquisitively. Though it was written in a congratulatory manner, it may be read in an accusatory manner, resulting in the person reading it feeling called out and attacked and retaliating or becoming defensive. As I try to tell people, offense is always taken, but rarely given. It's difficult to adequately convey what you're trying to when writing, but it's almost effortless when speaking the exact same words.

The written word is exempt from tone and inflection.
I know I have written responses that were taken as negative, though it was not meant as such.

[Wrktfsh]

The anonymity of the Internet makes people bolder than they would be face to face.

[astrnmrtom]

I also try to temper my viewpoint by reminding myself that its also a game of numbers. In the real world I only have a small circle of people I might talk to about a particular subject and even then It's not frequent. When I go to forums I'm stepping into a place where there are a lot more people talking about a subject. I try to tell myself that if one in 25 people are rude at any particular time, the larger the numbers, the greater the odds I'll run into a rude person at any single visit.

I had a similar epiphany about (crazy/bad/etc) drivers on the road near where I live. I found myself saying "People are worse drivers than they used to be." Then I realized the population in my area has grown a lot in the past 30 years and there are way more people on the road. More drivers on the road means greater odds of being annoyed on any given trip. The percentage of the total population that bothers me when I drive may be exactly the same, it just there's three times as many people as in the past.

That said, I still do think we are becoming more of a "Think it, say it" society and are worse online because we aren't communicating face to face. Human communication has developed over hundreds of thousands of years to be both verbal and visual. Spoken language has evolved right along humans living in larger and larger groups. Those groups had to learn to communicate with other groups without triggering war. Communication developed taboos. Much like strange dogs who wag their tails and sniff each other to signal their non aggressive intent.

In an extremely short period of time, two way, real time communication has become written, so its all done without the interpersonal, subconscious, and instinctive cues that help regulate the experience. One change is; in a forum we speak as if we are talking to people we know, like a group of digital friends, yet we are in fact strangers. I think subconsciously we behave as if we are a familiar social group which gives us greater emotional freedom to speak our mind like we would amongst friends. I think when you are talking face to face with strangers, you hold back and tread more lightly until you get to know each other. Wag and sniff. Online conversations eliminate or at least reduce those cultural taboos.

[BTFT]

I find this thread fascinating for several reasons.


One that struck me right away was the OP made essentially the same argument I have made in previous posts.



In some cases several of the respondents that totally agree with the OP here on essentially the same argument others have made in other threads, disagreed violently with those similar statements and resorted to clear violations of the rules on other threads varying from outright name calling to calling others character into question.


I am still chuckling over the irony of that.


Here is what I see as the real problem that causes the kinds of wildly different behaviour I note above.



To the question of "tone" in the written word...


"The written word is exempt from tone and inflection..."


I have to take exception to this for a couple of reasons. While it may be true in many cases on sites like this as a general statement it is not true.


Read any GOOD novel or book of non fiction or History. Tone and inflection can most certainly be transmitted by written word. But it takes practice, education and good writing skills, re-reading and editing.


But the real problem with "Tone" which I do agree gets mangled so often on sites like this is: The "tone" that the reader takes away is often already inside his or her head. Probably triggered by their inherent feelings about whatever topic is being discussed and or their feeling about the particular poster and previous discussions.


This is easily verifiable by looking at some threads where a few come away with a radically different idea of the OP's or other posters "Tone" and meaning while others, the majority in many cases, take away a more nuanced message that more closely aligns with the intent of the OP/Poster.


So how can those reading the same words come away with such different takes on what they read?


Part of it, I believe, is what is called "Confirmation Bias". Which is defined thus:


"Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that affirms one's prior beliefs or hypotheses. It is a type of cognitive bias and a systematic error of inductive reasoning."



Keep in mind that Confirmation Bias is a double edged sword it cuts both ways. In Other words; Only believing what you read that you agree with and NOT believing anything you read you DONT agree with or believe in.


So in short I think that "Tone" and "inflection" and how those are "read" and understood by different folks is a lot more nuanced and complicated than what the users generally understand or take time to really consider often leading to misunderstandings and conflict. Most of it unnecessary.


I do agree it is widespread and aggravated by our modern communications technology and the way many use it. But I do not think the technology is to blame.

[R.Wold]

Originally Posted by MSHappyCampers

It's really simple. Treat others the way you want to be treated!

Yep, the Golden Rule. At least once, and sometimes twice. After that things might progress a little...

[Cloud Dancer]

If I tell you I'm a nice guy, you shouldn't believe it. What I do is to profile people. Then, go from there. It's interesting how a person can seem fairly normal in most cases, except when discussing a couple of subjects. THAT'S a good reason to keep quiet sometimes.
Personally, I feel lucky, and I'm grateful everyday. On thanksgiving day, I thank George Washington, because "Commander of the Continental Army, General George Washington agreed, proclaiming December 18, 1777 as the first national thanksgiving day."

[AZ RV'r]

I see a simple trend on here and I'm sure most of you will agree.

Posts that are "help me" (engine won't start, where is this valve?) posts are usually friendly with everyone involved and generally end in a low number of posts to the thread.

On the other hand, "opinion posts" (gas VS. diesel, old VS. new) go on forever and get nasty quick.

If you have an older coach there is always "that guy" that chimes in and says stuff like... Old coaches are terrible and are just one expensive problem after another.

If you have a new coach, the "other guy" says all new coaches are crap, built fast with no quality control and the old ones are the best.

Here are the FACTS!!!!!

People on this forum have had the exact OPPOSITE experiences and opinions of yours, and feel the exact opposite of you... ON EVERYTHING..... and thats OK!


If you really want to see some sparks and anger.... one of you brave people start some new threads with these names.....

Why are ALL Tiffins such piles of crap?
Tell me why are Newmars are geared toward LOW IQ people.....
Dummy's buy diesels...
Only poor people buy gas coaches...

[TriMoot]

Originally Posted by Itchytoe

One of the problems is that people are communicating more frequently through written methods rather than spoken ones, but our languages aren't any different than before. Human communication is largely non-verbal. Take the movie Wall-E as an example. The main character, Wall-E, (spoiler alert if you somehow haven't seen this wonderful movie) says about a dozen words through the whole movie, but everyone knows what he's thinking and feeling throughout the whole thing. One of the words he says is "Eve", the name of another character in the movie. He says it with a different inflection to denote curiosity, fear, affection, and desperation, but that would be written as "Eve!" in each of those cases. If you can't hear "Eve!" being pronounced, you can't tell if he is saying it in excitement, or fear, or anger, or desperation. It's all "Eve!" when written, but it's completely different every time it's spoken.

The same thing applies to what people write online. "You did it!" can be read as accusatory, or congratulatory, or even inquisitively. Though it was written in a congratulatory manner, it may be read in an accusatory manner, resulting in the person reading it feeling called out and attacked and retaliating or becoming defensive. As I try to tell people, offense is always taken, but rarely given. It's difficult to adequately convey what you're trying to when writing, but it's almost effortless when speaking the exact same words.

Wow..that was beautifully written..thanks for sharing. So...is writing one of your professions? If not...is should be! Well done, and spot on.

THANKS! (Written with a congratulatory emphasis.)

[steve52]

Originally Posted by BTFT

Read any GOOD novel or book of non fiction or History. Tone and inflection can most certainly be transmitted by written word. But it takes practice, education and good writing skills, re-reading and editing.

Many (most?) people just don't put much effort into a forum comment.

[WyCamper]

Originally Posted by Itchytoe

As I try to tell people, offense is always taken, but rarely given.

I agree with this completely. And yet on another thread you seemed to go out of your way to be offended by the OP, and attacked the OP, even though many others reading the same post did not find any intended offense. Ironic, I guess.