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Old 11-26-2019, 09:21 AM   #43
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And Fox is better?
They at least report the news that the MSM/DNC won't.
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Old 11-26-2019, 09:35 AM   #44
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Boys and Girls..........

Think they all - NYT -Washington Post - Fox News - Agree that the National Parks are a Treasure and they Need some Help.

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Old 11-26-2019, 09:46 AM   #45
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Some very good points made from every angle. But the one thing missing is money isn't going to fix the vast majority of problems the article and author pointed out. Funding the park service isn't going to stop, slow down or impact any climate change. A fully funded park system isn't going to keep any visitors away and may even bring in more, so an overcrowded park will still be overcrowded. It is going to take more than an increase in the NPS budget to eliminate invasive species.
Several posts caught my attention. I agree with the poster who mentioned we are adding national parks at an unsustainable pace. Also, I thought the post that mentioned repairs are not sexy but new exhibits are was right on. I also have personal experience with working with the park service and the poster was 100% correct that even a repair of a broken water line does require virtually an act of congress. Those types of issues are where real leadership and a nod to common sense could make a true impact. Perhaps a bold policy of no new parks or new facilities until the backlog of repairs are eliminated would work, but of course it would never be politically accepted.
As for privatization of in park services, I am all for it. Those concessionaires pay large fees into the park service for the rights to run those restaurants, lodging facilities, stores and fuel stations, campgrounds, boat rentals, tours and the like. The last thing we need are government employees, with their benefits, pay scales and work rules running sandwich shops and checking in guests. Unlike what the political parties want you to believe, the best answers to many issues lie in a combination of government and private industry.
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Old 11-26-2019, 10:52 AM   #46
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The National Parks in the US are not in trouble. That article was nothing more than a fluff piece designed to stir the pot. It even talks about how there are too many people at national parks when the author was literally making it more crowded by being there. When people complain about the problems they are causing, they aren't worth listening to.
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Old 11-26-2019, 11:09 AM   #47
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Interesting subject matter for a post

The sad thing is we really can’t do a thing about how the Federal or State governments decides to spend our tax dollars or to prevent them from essentially charging those of us who actually visit the park system what amounts to additional taxes

There are certain things the government has agreed to provide its citizens through the collection of taxes. It is a quid pro quo sort of thing. There are public roadways, bridges, parks, beaches, fire, police, Social Security, Medicare and the military to name just a few.

In failing to properly allocate and efficiently use our tax dollars (remember the $800 hammer) for these things and especially the refuge and nature beauty of our park systems for all of us to use and enjoy like it was originally intended, the governments have become rather creative in essentially breaching their obligations by raising our taxes without actually raising our taxes through the collection of new fees, surcharges, permits and penalties for those of us that use what was originally "free" to use and specifically included in our taxes for the general good of society.

Now it has morphed into something else all together. It is what is it is and it doesn’t matter what political party may be in power Guess the best advice is to simply use the park system while it is still available to use before the governments sell it off to the highest bidder or privatize it in the spirit of democracy of course .
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Old 11-26-2019, 11:23 AM   #48
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IMO it's political. Nobody has the power to take a sensible approach to the problem (one that serves the majority).
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Old 11-26-2019, 11:54 AM   #49
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What does a National Park actually need. I would say clean public washrooms, and decent roads and trails so people can enjoy them. Do they need 3D interactive centers. No they don't. I say campgrounds don't need expensive services other than clean washrooms and showers. This way campers must enjoy nature the way it was intended, not the Ritz Carlton on wheels. If that is your idea of camping, private enterprise has your spot right down the road. Seriously, we are talking about keeping some roads in decent shape, and a few public buildings from falling down. They have trillions to waste on stupidity, and can put a man into space, but cant keep a public washroom from falling down. I think the answer is to simplify the parks offerings, not add a whole bunch more stuff there. Its meant to stay natural. Large restaurants and hotels are not part of the natural landscape. Putting the price up to 100 dollars, or creating a lottery just goes toward making sure only rich people get to use the parks. This was not their original intention when they created them.
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Old 11-26-2019, 01:33 PM   #50
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The parks will continue to be in trouble. The dollars necessary to be spent to clean this mess up will never be. The parks accept nearly anyone so you can guess the mess left behind. It takes an unbelievable resource to deal with it. Sorry and sad but that will be the new normal. I stay in private parks that in most cases have people filters.
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Old 11-26-2019, 02:25 PM   #51
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Entrance fees for public facilities are problematic.

If "we the people" have already bought, built, and maintained a facility, and if profit isn't a proper consideration, fees are improper.

Bumping up fees merely reserves the facility for the use of those people who have enough money to pay the fees. If you want to go down that route, why not reserve voting rights for property owners?

If something truly is a public asset, and if we need to reduce the use of that asset, lottery admission is far more fair.
You are ignoring the detrimental effect that free or cheap admission is having on the parks. What we are seeing at the parks is what happens when you supply something for less than the cost of supplying it. Shortages, over-use, and inadequate funding. If you want to fix the problem, charge visitors enough to pay the full cost of maintaining the facilities. Kind of like Disney does. You don't see their facilities in disrepair, because they collect enough money to maintain them.

These parks are a goodly distance from most where visitors live, which means it costs a lot to get there and stay in or near the parks. A few extra dollars in fees will not change the overall cost equation in a major way for those who visit, but will make a major improvement in funding for the parks.

Let the people who enjoy the parks pay the costs incurred, and you will put the parks on a healthy footing.
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Old 11-26-2019, 03:00 PM   #52
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Log in to the link below for some insightful information about our National Park Service.

https://www.nps.gov/aboutus/faqs.htm

A few items of interest.

Our Mission
The National Park Service preserves unimpaired the natural and cultural resources and values of the National Park System for the enjoyment, education, and inspiration of this and future generations. The Park Service cooperates with partners to extend the benefits of natural and cultural resource conservation and outdoor recreation throughout this country and the world.


The system includes 419 areas covering more than 85 million acres in every state, the District of Columbia, American Samoa, Guam, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands. These areas include national parks, monuments, battlefields, military parks, historical parks, historic sites, lakeshores, seashores, recreation areas, scenic rivers and trails, and the White House.

Total recreation visitors to the national parks in 2018: 318,211,833.
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Old 11-26-2019, 03:57 PM   #53
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Log in to the link below for some insightful information about our National Park Service.

https://www.nps.gov/aboutus/faqs.htm
Good overview. Note that in 2017 there were 20,000+ employees, including part-time and seasonal.

There were 315,000 volunteers. In Rocky Mountain alone they utilize over 1,000 volunteers.

Yes, the parks are understaffed.

As volunteers we were reminded often that without volunteers the parks would be in serious trouble. They need YOU!
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Old 11-26-2019, 05:34 PM   #54
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National Parks In Trouble

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...


This much I can tell you the signs directing visitors to the office where you buy the entrance fee and other fees are large, on the roads into the visitor center and frankly hard to miss.
(Perhaps you were dazzled by the scenery)
...

Getting to the visitor center is easy and parking is free. But that's as far as you can go. Beyond that you must pay.
...
Well all I can say is during the summer of 2018 the signs were not there. We drove in 4+ times and my wife and I both talked about how backward it was that there was no gate fee, so I am pretty darn sure we would have seen something.

Secondly, we talked to a number of private car drivers and they were all in basically the same, most were shocked there were no fees, at least one thought it was great that it was free.

Finally, I was standing there when someone mentioned the lack of fees to a ranger, he just shrugged his shoulders and shook his head, and said something to the effect we have been saying/talking about that for years.

So, if it's so well run, why were so many people missing it? Why didn't the ranger say something?

End result lots of people were visiting the park at that time who were not paying an entrance fee.

BTW, the scenery at the entrance is nothing special, just typical Alaskan back woods. So I doubt neither my wife who reads just about every road side sign nor myself would have missed a huge billboard style sign there. There were plenty of them, but nothing about fees.

There were a lot of people driving from the visitor center to the bridge with guard shack that confirms passes from there on in. A number of parking areas with trail heads, including one just short of the bridge. So again either a lot of us were breaking the rules, or there is an additional 10-15 miles past the visitor center that is available for private car viewing.

Finally, yes I love the park. We have been there at least four times including a 4 day stay at the Kantishna area at the end of the park road. Truly a jewel of our park system!

Steve
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Old 11-26-2019, 07:47 PM   #55
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Time to move on this thread is now closed.

Thanks to those who posted within Community Rules.
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