Nationwide regulations

[BTFT]

Originally Posted by grindstone01

It definitely sounds like you have a opinion based on your 1 year there. Again, 5 years of my experience don't show that and truck drivers know what is going on in the other yards, we have CB radios on board. Farmers also attend ACS meetings and they have way more to lose if one of their drivers has a accident than ACS does.

This is slightly off topic here but let me just say this; There are 2800 beet growers in the Red River valley which is an area about 35 miles wide and stretches 200 miles from the Canadian border south. There are 38 beet piling sites. You worked for one grower with a CB that has about a mile range.


My site alone saw 655 trucks (deliveries) in ONE SHIFT (my shift) It is often over 1000 trucks per day. I probably saw more trucks and drivers in ONE shift than you may have seen in 5 years. Please go online and google "Beet harvest truck accidents" and you will have a different picture perhaps, there are many many accidents each season.


I am very glad that you and your wife are careful drivers and hope you stay safe. The Beet harvest needs more of them like you.



I originally read your post to mean that you were saying in effect that drivers don't need to understand the air brake system. (even though you didnt specifically say that). If I am mistaken I am sorry. But I am confused whether you are suggesting that people who drive air brake vehicles don't need to know about the brakes or do an air brake test? What is your objection? Or do you agree? Did you view the video? and if so what do you think?


And you are right the piler sites are incredibly dirty, dangerous and hard work. Luckily as the Foreman my vehicle to get around the site was a CAT 950 Loader. (Which I used often to pull out stuck trucks)



My view is more knowledge certainly can't hurt.

[twinboat]

Trucks operate in all sorts of conditions.

Running in the sand pit to a dump site will put 5 years of wear on its brakes compared to the Wal-Mart truck always on a southern highway.

Trying to compare that to a private owed Motorhome with limited use is like apples and oranges. Truck statistics don't match up with MH stats.

Any RV, whether with air or hydraulic brakes need to be checked by a qualified mechanic.

A air brake equipped RV will be a safer vehicle then a same size hydraulic brake RV and thats without proper maintance.

With air brakes, if you don't make air, you don't move, if you loose air, you stop moving. If the brake pedal don't work, you pull a button and come to a pretty normal stop, using the rear brakes. You also get to listen to loud annoying alarms to warn you something is wrong.

With hydraulic brakes, if not maintained properly, you drive off with a little red brake light on. If it don't stop, good luck using the drive shaft mounted parking brake.

[BTFT]

Originally Posted by Ljwt330

If I understand the quote correctly, defective brakes, whatever that means, was part (not clear as to how much of a part) of the cause of 26% of large truck crashes, but were the primary/causal factor in only 1%. Is that correct?


I'm not criticizing or challenging any statements about the need for proper operation and checking of air brakes. I just want to be clear as to the conclusion posted by the traffic study.

The way I understand it they assign a primary causal factor. But they view almost all crashes as multi-causal. The thing is these figures, the way I read them, are that the brakes were the critical factor but not the only one...where they were considered the ONLY factor is the 1%....


So in other words if following too closely was also a factor and the brakes failed...which is the primary causal factor?

[BTFT]

Originally Posted by twinboat

Trucks operate in all sorts of conditions.

Running in the sand pit to a dump site will put 5 years of wear on its brakes compared to the Wal-Mart truck always on a southern highway.

Trying to compare that to a private owed Motorhome with limited use is like apples and oranges. Truck statistics don't match up with MH stats.

Any RV, whether with air or hydraulic brakes need to be checked by a qualified mechanic.

A air brake equipped RV will be a safer vehicle then a same size hydraulic brake RV and thats without proper maintance.

With air brakes, if you don't make air, you don't move, if you loose air, you stop moving. If the brake pedal don't work, you pull a button and come to a pretty normal stop, using the rear brakes. You also get to listen to loud annoying alarms to warn you something is wrong.

With hydraulic brakes, if not maintained properly, you drive off with a little red brake light on. If it don't stop, good luck using the drive shaft mounted parking brake.

What you write is mostly accurate however the statistics I posted were "commercial vehicles" which included buses. DP airbrake MH's are essentially buses with furniture.



Secondly let me clarify something you wrote about brakes.


You will NOT necessarily "come to a stop" if you lose your air. If your brakes are not adjusted properly, and this is common, or worn too much (and inexperienced air brake drivers often ride their brakes), even if the emergency system works to apply the brakes, if they never contact the drums or only slightly make contact you will not stop. Or your stopping distance will be greatly increased which may still result in a crash. This is an example of why understanding the system and keeping it maintained is so important and why I posted the video.

[Mojim]

what was the question ?

[Bigd9]

I think the question was a concern over air brake endorsement on a drivers license. I believed it was answered by indicating the state that issued your driving license will determine weather or not you need one.

[grindstone01]

Originally Posted by grindstone01

We help a ND farmer do his sugar beet harvest every fall for the last 5 years. In ND, all you need is a regular DL to operate a semi w/air brakes as long as it is farm related and within 100 miles of the farm. The point is that DL requirements are dictated by the state your vehicle is registered in and/or you reside in, so check with your DMV.

This was my earlier post trying to point out that each state has specific air brake requirements. Check with your local DMV!
Opinions don't matter here, you have to follow your local state DL requirements....

[Renipladlo]

Canada requires an Air Brake Endorsement for all RV with AB's. Wish we had more regulations on RV licensing, why, some people are too stupid to own them, and no one stops them from doing so.

My Example, was sick with cold in RV park in Ehrenberg, AZ, sitting in chair inside, and saw brand new 5th wheel come into area where I was. He did not go little past turn in, just turned in, wife was sitting in passenger seat reading book, his angle was all wrong, and he started to hit and pull down the Power Pedestal. I jump up/out of RV and screamed for him to stop, he did, and I showed him what he was doing and why. I was mad as heck, and did not feel good at all, so I gave him piece of mind, and wife too, she needs to be out there helping him. He said they had only had it week, 1st RV. There should be requirement for special licensing on RV's because too many people just don't know how to drive large vehicles, and are going to kill someone. Which might be me!!!!! I had to drive big rigs for work, company made all of us take and pass CDL training, both classroom and OTR. It has save my life lots of times over the years.

[BTFT]

Originally Posted by Bigd9

I think the question was a concern over air brake endorsement on a drivers license. I believed it was answered by indicating the state that issued your driving license will determine weather or not you need one.

The question actually had multi parts if read carefully.



And just for the record I do not know of any state that requires an airbrake endorsement for an RV with air brakes. That does not mean there isn't one, I just don't know of any. The air brake written test and endorsement is usually reserved for those getting Class B or A licenses.

[BTFT]

Originally Posted by Old-RVer

Canada requires an Air Brake Endorsement for all RV with AB's. Wish we had more regulations on RV licensing, why, some people are too stupid to own them, and no one stops them from doing so.

My Example, was sick with cold in RV park in Ehrenberg, AZ, sitting in chair inside, and saw brand new 5th wheel come into area where I was. He did not go little past turn in, just turned in, wife was sitting in passenger seat reading book, his angle was all wrong, and he started to hit and pull down the Power Pedestal. I jump up/out of RV and screamed for him to stop, he did, and I showed him what he was doing and why. I was mad as heck, and did not feel good at all, so I gave him piece of mind, and wife too, she needs to be out there helping him. He said they had only had it week, 1st RV. There should be requirement for special licensing on RV's because too many people just don't know how to drive large vehicles, and are going to kill someone. Which might be me!!!!! I had to drive big rigs for work, company made all of us take and pass CDL training, both classroom and OTR. It has save my life lots of times over the years.

I couldn't agree more. Even the mechanics that work in large truck repair have to take and pass the CDL tests. The mechanics at Holland America/Princess here in Fairbanks all have either CDL B and or A licenses.


And I am a firm believer that anyone who buys a 40+ ft MH should at minimum get the Class B license with air brake endorsement. If for no other reason than to learn to parallel park, back to a "dock", Offset back and move through the Slalom.


Everywhere I go I see men and women who have not the slightest idea of how to properly drive their MH's, cant maneuver safely and have no idea where the limits of their vehicle are. Many spouses are using confusing or incorrect hand signals or none at all, instead screaming or worst of all using a walkie-talkie while backing their driver and are often positioned where the driver cannot see them. There is NO substitute for G.O.A.L. Get Out And Look for the driver.


Like you I have had to dart from my comfy trailer to help some guy avoid disaster on quite a few occasions.


I cannot imagine the thought process that allows one to purchase a $250,000 to 1 Million Dollar MH that is bigger and more complex than anything they have ever driven and not invest in the time and effort to educate themselves on how to drive it safely.

[Dutch Star Don]

For those wanting more Government Intervention into how we drive, what do you think is one of the most fearful things people realize as they get older. They know that eventually, they will lose their ability to drive and their freedom. You start placing licensing restrictions on older retirees, you may eliminate many because of medical issues that never affected their driving, but the state THINKS it might. I'm not saying people should drive with serious medical issues, but someone one like me has controllable hypertension. I don't want some state bureaucrat telling me I can't drive anymore. I certainly don't need another license fee or waiting months to get an appointment because all these agencies are broke or incompetent. That all comes when you start requiring private coach owners to take professional trucking tests. Even if the test is not for a CDL, any added testing becomes a nightmare.

Should you know how to drive your RV and how the brakes work.....yes, but it certainly isn't brain surgery or half the trucks in the country would be sitting idle. If I were trucker and jumped into some company rig I had never driven before, I would certainly do a full brake test. Same thing if I was towing an air brake trailer that I had never towed before. As stated earlier, all of us are driving rigs we are very familiar with. I don't need to do a brake test every time I start the coach and drive off. If you say YOU do, I would say you're telling tall tales. I've been RVing for 43 years and have never seen someone do a complete brake test in a campground....never!

Lastly.....how many RV accidents do you see attributed to large Class A driver's versus other groups. I've been reading here for over ten years. I can't think of a single thread where someone said their air brakes quit while driving.

Be careful what you wish for.....there are a lot of people currently trying to take our rights away....because they think they know what's best for us!

[BTFT]

Originally Posted by Dutch Star Don

For those wanting more Government Intervention into how we drive, what do you think is one of the most fearful things people realize as they get older. They know that eventually, they will lose their ability to drive and their freedom. You start placing licensing restrictions on older retirees, you may eliminate many because of medical issues that never affected their driving, but the state THINKS it might. I'm not saying people should drive with serious medical issues, but someone one like me has controllable hypertension. I don't want some state bureaucrat telling me I can't drive anymore. I certainly don't need another license fee or waiting months to get an appointment because all these agencies are broke or incompetent. That all comes when you start requiring private coach owners to take professional trucking tests. Even if the test is not for a CDL, any added testing becomes a nightmare.

Should you know how to drive your RV and how the brakes work.....yes, but it certainly isn't brain surgery or half the trucks in the country would be sitting idle. If I were trucker and jumped into some company rig I had never driven before, I would certainly do a full brake test. Same thing if I was towing an air brake trailer that I had never towed before. As stated earlier, all of us are driving rigs we are very familiar with. I don't need to do a brake test every time I start the coach and drive off. If you say YOU do, I would say you're telling tall tales. I've been RVing for 43 years and have never seen someone do a complete brake test in a campground....never!

Lastly.....how many RV accidents do you see attributed to large Class A driver's versus other groups. I've been reading here for over ten years. I can't think of a single thread where someone said their air brakes quit while driving.

Be careful what you wish for.....there are a lot of people currently trying to take our rights away....because they think they know what's best for us!

First driving is a Privilege NOT a right.


It is given by the state and can be taken away for many types of infractions.


Your argument comes down to this: You don't want your freedom infringed by state regulations meant to increase overall driver safety. This, even as you age, your reflexes are getting slower, eyesight poorer, and health at least in question.


Most states use department of transportation statistics on accidents when making new regulations on safety especially when it comes to commercial sized vehicles.


My guess is when MH owners object to a licensing requirement it is based on the fear they will not pass it, not on "freedom" or Govt. Regulation reasons.


Your second argument is that you don't need to do a brake test because you "understand" your vehicle.


While that might be true it really is no excuse for not doing a brake test which will bring to light such things as "is my governor working properly" and does it need attention. That you cannot know unless you do the Timed air tests in the video. You can also not know if your system is holding air at the proper rate...not leaking...unless you do the test. So you jump in and go off down the road. The minute you hit the public roads your actions or lack of them, your knowledge or lack of it suddenly has the ability to injure or kill others at much higher rate because you are driving a vehicle that weights 30K lbs.


I am sorry but to my mind that is not a justification for not doing what is UNIVERSALLY recognized as a critical safety procedure.


As for MH accidents. The dept of Transportation does not track MH accidents separately. Thus we have no real data. But given the number of MH accidents I see all over the US they are pretty numerous given the small number (relatively speaking) to other types of vehicles.


So I regretfully must disagree with your view of this.


And some of the best words on safety came from a safety administrator I dealt with who asked a group...Why do we do safety? His answer was simple; "because it's the RIGHT and Ethical thing to do."


Oh and by the way; if you can afford your MH and it's fuel and insurance and it's maintenance you can certainly afford the $50 to $100 for a Class B license.

[Dutch Star Don]

Well....I'm 62, been, driving an RV for 44 years, yet I don't tell others what they need to do, and can still outdrive many keyboard experts in this post.

Actually, being able to drive is a right not, a privilege. Yes, it can be revoked for violating the law, but EVERYONE has the right to apply and drive a vehicle. There is no one at the DMV handing out privilege cards, or determining you can't drive on a whim.

[grindstone01]

Originally Posted by Dutch Star Don

Well....I'm 62, been, driving an RV for 44 years, yet I don't tell others what they need to do, and can still outdrive many keyboard experts in this post.

Actually, being able to drive is a right not, a privilege. Yes, it can be revoked for violating the law, but EVERYONE has the right to apply and drive a vehicle. There is no one at the DMV handing out privilege cards, or determining you can't drive on a whim.

Good point!