Portable Generator To Feed House

[ruffian]

I would use an extension cord into the house, split the 50 A, and plug in extension cords. Don't screw with the house wiring or the power grid.


Finally, if your Gen hooks up to the Grid, your gen will let out a lot of smoke.

[SnowNCycle]

Illegal to feed power back into a circuit connected to a power grid without the use of a transfer switch.

[TandW]

Originally Posted by RTegarini

I’m disappointed that the thread hasn’t been shut down and removed. Unsafely and illegally sending electrical power to a home and potentially the power grid has nothing to do with RV’ing. Maybe if I say something ‘political’ a moderator will. -RT

X2. The dissemination of information advocating unsafe practices does not belong here.

[lewisedge]

Originally Posted by wog099

I know what I am asking is not to code and an electrician would/could not do it. All I want to know if the setup I propose will work in an emergency; so please don't lambast me too bad.

I am in East Texas and lost power for a week last winter.
When I lived in GA I had a 50 amp outlet outside my house that I would plug my RV into. My portable generator has a 30 amp outlet, so an electrician made a power cord to plug into the 30 amp generator outlet with a 50 amp plug on the other end of the power cord. I then could turn my electricity off at a switch outside my house near the meter, and plug my generator into the house via the RV 50 amp plug. It worked great, and I could run some things in the house; so I would turn off unnecessary breakers or breakers that used too much power.

Where I am now I have a 30 amp RV outlet outside my house. Can I use a 50 to 30 amp reducer to plug my 50 amp portable generator cord in to the house via the RV outlet? I do not have an outside switch at this house, but would turn the Main breaker off in the house breaker box (to not feed electricity out to the main line). Doing this seems like the same setup, however I know a 30 amp line/outlet is setup up different than a 50 amp.

Will this work as an emergency setup to keep fridge, furnace, lights, etc. running in the house?

Thanks for you help,

If you ALWAYS turn OFF your main breaker before you make a generator connection to a 30-amp outlet connected to your house it will feed only half of the circuits on your 240-volt main panel.


As a graduate electrical engineer who was once a licensed electrician, I fully understand why many freak out over the thought of anyone back-feeding an electrical panel with a male-to-male plug connection. Making a mistake with such an arrangement at best will trip a breaker or blow a fuse. At worse it could, temporarily, cause a fatal shock hazard to a lineman. I don't believe, however, that a portable generator can back feed an entire neighborhood for more than a few seconds before tripping its breaker or bogging down.



For nearly 40 years, when we had power outages, I used a back-feed connection with my home which was built in the mid-sixties. Installing a transfer switch would have been costly. I was meticulous about opening the main breaker before connecting my generator. My generator produced 30-amps at 240 volts, which was enough to power my well pump, refrigerator, freezer, basement sump pump, lights, TV, oil-fired boiler, oil-fired water heater, computers and other essentials, but not enough to run our electric range, dryer or central air. We cooked on a two-burner propane camping stove during extended outages.


My new home is in a southeastern coastal hurricane zone, which has already experienced several outages, one of which lasted five days. I have a 10KW 240-volt dual-fuel portable backup generator and a 3,800 watt portable 120-volt dual-fuel generator. Either can back-feed power to all of the circuits in my home from either of two locations using propane from my 500 gallon propane tank. In a pinch I could also back-feed power to my home from my motorhome's Onan generator but that has not been necessary. Since we cook, dry laundry and heat water with propane, our 3,800 watt generator will run everything but our central heat pump.

[TandW]

The advocacy for creating a hazardous situation continues. By self-proclaimed experts, no less.

[Mudfrog]

Originally Posted by joelsplace

All the doom and gloom is really funny. I've had to connect my generator to my house 3 or 4 times over the last 35 years. Last time I made a "suicide" jumper. I guess I did it wrong because we were the only people with power for almost a week, no one died and everything in the house worked.
I don't have a main breaker or disconnect so I just pulled the meter.

Not sure what part of the country you're located in but it's very surprising that you aren't required to have a main breaker or disconnect.

Pulling the meter, I won't do it for the typical short term power outage but I have done it a couple of times when storms left us without power for more than a week. The utility company doesn't normally like for us home owners to break the seal and pull the meter but I was actually thanked by a lineman for doing it when power was restored after Rita came through in 05.

Someone above mentioned that there was almost nil of a possibility that a lineman could get hurt but a mistake made or maybe a lack of following procedures could get a lineman hurt. I ain't taking any chances.

Suicide plug,,, no way I'm a gonna do something like that. I would know what was going on but who knows who else might come along and get hurt, or worse. Why not just get into the box and wire the cord in?

[CRV2]

Originally Posted by TandW

The advocacy for creating a hazardous situation continues. By self-proclaimed experts, no less.

While I recommend what I stated in post #15 (and a couple others), I also am confident that in such an emergency as that which occurred in Texas earlier this year (as the OP was asking about), that it would be less hazardous to turn off the main breaker and use a generator to backfeed a house in order to keep a gas furnace running (or a small electric heater in a small room) than it would be to have the house temperature fall below zero indoors, which did happen to many and certainly killed a lot of Texans. There were no reports (that I am aware of) of linemen being electrocuted due to people backfeeding with their generators, but certainly there were a lot of reports of people who died due to hypothermia (hundreds, and even 1000+ deaths in many reports of people who froze to death).

In any case, I still suggest to prepare now and do so with approved connections, but in an emergency such as what the OP had asked about, we all will have to decide what the best course of action would be, which for most people, the risk of freezing to death due to not having electricity is not one of the options I would suggest for those with a generator and a gas fired furnace.

Still, I can't emphasize enough, be safe everyone. ~CA

[bigb56]

Originally Posted by Mudfrog

Not sure what part of the country you're located in but it's very surprising that you aren't required to have a main breaker or disconnect.

Very likely an old split bus panel with up to six mains on the top bus and the branch breakers on the lower bus. One of the 2 pole breakers on the upper bus feeds the lower bus which is called the "lighting section". The upper bus always remains connected to the utility unless the meter is removed. Can be very confusing and dangerous to those who don't understand them and have seen a couple DIYs who got pissed off when they turned off all the breakers but still got shocked by the upper bus, they don't understand it but that doesn't stop them from sticking their hands into an electrical panel..
Big fine here if caught pulling a meter even if you are a licensed sparky, besides ours are all locked with barrel locks so you'd need a key or a grinder.

[Alpine36]

Since this is an RV forum may I make a simple yet safe suggestion to those who refuse to properly set up their residence to NEC standards utilizing a generator?
During a power outage fire up your portable generator, run an extension cord(s) to your S&B fridge/freezer and move in to the RV. Works for us every time and won't hurt anybody, plus you get to "camp" in your own driveway.

[RTegarini]

“In any case, I still suggest to prepare now and do so with approved connections, but in an emergency such as what the OP had asked about…”

Is it actually an ‘emergency situation’ if someone has taken steps PRIOR to a power outage to circumvent safe and legal procedures? Or maybe more like they are creating one.

Once again, you have people here that spend tens of thousands of dollars (and more) on RV’s yet want to only spend pennies and create unsafe conditions for a cheap solutions to a problem.

It’s interesting that I can post my political party and get a reprimand or a thread shut-down, yet a thread that promotes unsafe and illegal practices affecting the power grid are ignored. I live in California and know with certainty with the power company that many of the suggestions here are absolutely illegal and would never pass local government inspections. For a reason… -RT

[KanzKran]

Originally Posted by bigb56

Very likely an old split bus panel with up to six mains on the top bus and the branch breakers on the lower bus.

Yes, 'no more than six strokes of the hand' to completely disconnect the loads. AFAIK, that still exists in the NEC, though most panels these days just use a main breaker.

[CRV2]

Originally Posted by RTegarini

“In any case, I still suggest to prepare now and do so with approved connections, but in an emergency such as what the OP had asked about…”

Is it actually an ‘emergency situation’ if someone has taken steps PRIOR to a power outage to circumvent safe and legal procedures? Or maybe more like they are creating one.

Once again, you have people here that spend tens of thousands of dollars (and more) on RV’s yet want to only spend pennies and create unsafe conditions for a cheap solutions to a problem.

It’s interesting that I can post my political party and get a reprimand or a thread shut-down, yet a thread that promotes unsafe and illegal practices affecting the power grid are ignored. I live in California and know with certainty with the power company that many of the suggestions here are absolutely illegal and would never pass local government inspections. For a reason… -RT

Mirriam_Webster
Emergency
: an unexpected and usually dangerous situation that calls for immediate action

Point being, in an emergency we all have to do what we can with what we have at the time, my comments all along though have been to be prepared and take the time now to setup a code compliant connection for the generator.

However, in this case, an RV generator certainly could provide some power to a house in an emergency and a code compliant setup could be made to make such a connection safe and complaint to code if installed ahead of any emergency. If an emergency did happen though, and one was not prepared for that emergency (we are all always prepared for every possible emergency, right?), then doing what is needed with what one has on hand in order to protect and potentially save lives becomes a bit more imperative and an RV generator could certainly be a lifesaving friend.

FYI, my Class C has a 55 gallon tank, that would last the generator quite a while I suspect. Class A's even larger tanks.

~CA

[RTegarini]

Originally Posted by craigav

Mirriam_Webster
Emergency
: an unexpected and usually dangerous situation that calls for immediate action
~CA

The steps that people have suggested that are dangerous and done IN ADVANCE of the so called ‘emergency’ isn’t really ‘unexpected’. Obviously, you’ve already decided what you will do BEFORE it even happens and it’s done simply because one doesn’t want to spend the money to do it right. If you can justify someone potentially getting hurt to save money, that’s on you. If you actually believe it’s okay to do, call your power company and let them know what you did.

Call it what you want: many of these steps are illegal from a power company standpoint and a local government standpoint and no way will they consent to these ‘temporary’ set-ups. We can all choose to justify our actions; after all, it’s our own reflection we see in the mirror.

I live in California and have had power issues for the last five out of six years due to fires and electrical grid issues. I decided to get a portable generator and set it up for emergency home use. ( Oh look… I planned AHEAD of the ‘emergency’ which means it’s no longer an emergency but a power outage, an inconvenience.) Yes, it required the installation of a transfer switch but at least I know I can’t electrocute some innocent lineman. But maybe that’s just me… -RT

[CRV2]

Originally Posted by RTegarini

The steps that people have suggested that are dangerous and done IN ADVANCE of the so called ‘emergency’ isn’t really ‘unexpected’. Obviously, you’ve already decided what you will do BEFORE it even happens and it’s done simply because one doesn’t want to spend the money to do it right. If you can justify someone potentially getting hurt to save money, that’s on you. If you actually believe it’s okay to do, call your power company and let them know what you did.

Call it what you want: many of these steps are illegal from a power company standpoint and a local government standpoint and no way will they consent to these ‘temporary’ set-ups. We can all choose to justify our actions; after all, it’s our own reflection we see in the mirror.

I live in California and have had power issues for the last five out of six years due to fires and electrical grid issues. I decided to get a portable generator and set it up for emergency home use. ( Oh look… I planned AHEAD of the ‘emergency’ which means it’s no longer an emergency but a power outage, an inconvenience.) Yes, it required the installation of a transfer switch but at least I know I can’t electrocute some innocent lineman. But maybe that’s just me… -RT

If you had read the previous comments, you would already know what I did regarding my generator setup and I also shared the components I purchased (and recommended) to others in order for them to setup their generator connection in a safe manner and in accordance to the NEC codes, so what you claim is obvious is simply wrong.

Regardless of any laws and codes, I think most of us here would agree that it is less important to follow all of the electrical codes to the letter than it is to stay alive and keep others alive... in an "Emergency" (and to do so as safely as possible even then). Which in part, is why I also think it is important for everyone to know how important it is to shut off the main breaker (or pull the meter for those few without a main breaker) if they ever connect a generator directly to an electrical panel (or to an electrical outlet with a cheater cord). ~CA