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10-05-2024, 08:57 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Wandering below the Gnat Line
Posts: 2,173
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Progressive Industries EMS
We're usually complaining here but I want to give kudos.
Back in 2013 I installed a Progressive EMS, just because I should. In 2014 it saved us from electrical mayhem that included a tree on fire. Over the years it's caught bad grounds several times, any of which could have caused hot skin.
Today it saved us from 240V and rapidly-changing frequency; an underground junction box at the RVP had apparently partly corroded away. The result could best be described as fibrillation, which nuked the electric meter and made the device readout flash at about 120hz.
We moved across the street and all's well.
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-jbh-
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10-05-2024, 09:06 PM
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#2
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Community Administrator
Pond Piggies Club LA Gulf Coast Campers Outdoors RV Owners Club Entegra Owners Club Skyline Owners Group
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 41,942
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I've had PI's in every RV since 2000. Saved my electronics more times than I can count. I highly recommend any power protection (not just a surge guard) for any RV. These toys cost thousands upon hundreds of thousands of dollars. A few hundred dollars can protect the valuable electronics in one.
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Lori (& Dave, my spirit guide) - RV/MH Hall of Fame Lifetime Member | My iRV2 Photo Albums
2016 Phoenix Cruiser 2350S, 2018 Phaeton 40IH,2006 Bounder 36Z, 2004 Cougar 285EFS, 2000 Aerolite 25FBR
There is great need for a sarcasm font.
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10-06-2024, 07:55 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Northern VT
Posts: 509
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Mine has saved me from brown outs multiple times on those hot summer days when Air Conditioning was in high demand. Low voltage can damage equipment just as much as a surge. For what they cost relative to the replacement cost of the equipment in the RV, very cheap insurance.
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2015 Winnebago Vista 35B. "The Vistabus!!"
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10-06-2024, 08:45 AM
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#4
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2024
Posts: 55
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I've been using a Progressive Industries portable 30A EMS for many years. I always recommend an Electrical Management System (EMS) over just a surge protector due to all of the added benefits.
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2012 GMC Sierra 2014 Wolf Creek 850SB
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10-06-2024, 12:54 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2019
Location: NJ
Posts: 678
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We spent a week in August at a campground in Cape May NJ. Our Progressive industries EMS kept disconnecting us a number of times each afternoon, due to low voltage (90 to 100 volts) .
When we contacted the camp staff they sent a service man that said the problem was in our TT, because he was getting low but acceptable voltage from the panel with no load attached. The moron didn't know anything about electricity and just left. We'll not be going back to that CG anytime soon.
Low voltage can wreck havoc with AC units and converters, causing AC motors and Transformers to burn up.
Our EMS saved us from serious damage, and I won't own an RV without one.
Safe travels and all the best.
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10-06-2024, 01:14 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 6,595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnhicks
... and rapidly-changing frequency; an underground junction box at the RVP had apparently partly corroded away. The result could best be described as fibrillation, which nuked the electric meter and made the device readout flash at about 120hz.
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For clarification, the 60 hz frequency is set and controlled by the generating systems across the country all being synchronized with each other. It is simply not possible for a local disturbance to change the actual frequency.
I consider frequency checking to be feature creep. The only way frequency checking could protect you from anything is if your power source is not synced to the national grid, such as when using a backup generator. Even then those devices have their own checks and controls.
I don't know how old your PI unit is but PI had a problem where their filtering was inadequate and electrical noise superimposed on the power circuit would be interpreted as a frequency problem and the EMS would kill the power inappropriately. In pre-LED days those "night lights" on top of pedestals could trigger an over-frequency or under-frequency condition that did not really exist.
I'm certain that the arcing that was going on in your circuit was generating electrical noise that was being misinterpreted by the PI EMS as a frequency deviation.
But yeah, good story and thanks for reinforcing why a device that will automatically shut the power off is a good thing to have.
We use the PI hard-wired 50-amp EMS. I installed it in 2019 and a few years ago I was seeing higher than normal voltages. Not excessively high to the point of a shut down but higher than expected. I double-checked with a DVM and the PI EMS was in error.
PI has a PDF for how to calibrate their voltage display so I did that when we got back home. Then the voltages started showing lower than expected and the DVM confirmed it was a PI error.
I tracked it for a few weeks and the PI EMS was showing voltage fluctuations of about +/- 4 volts AC from reality. I contacted PI and they shipped me a new control board for free. The new board looked only a bit like the original one so there were some design changes from our original 2019 model. (I used to repair electronics down to the component level so I'm always curious about changes like that.)
It's been fine ever since and their customer service is a real winner.
Ray
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10-06-2024, 02:12 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1stimerveer
We spent a week in August at a campground in Cape May NJ. Our Progressive industries EMS kept disconnecting us a number of times each afternoon, due to low voltage (90 to 100 volts) .
When we contacted the camp staff they sent a service man that said the problem was in our TT, because he was getting low but acceptable voltage from the panel with no load attached. The moron didn't know anything about electricity and just left. We'll not be going back to that CG anytime soon.
Low voltage can wreck havoc with AC units and converters, causing AC motors and Transformers to burn up.
Our EMS saved us from serious damage, and I won't own an RV without one.
Safe travels and all the best.
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The service person was full of you know what. He was just saying what the campground owner wanted him to say. What was acceptable to him?
I would imagine the only load on the line may have been the converter and a few lights. Sounds like he never opened the box on the pole to look for faulty connections.
Sure hope this wasn't one of the Sun Resorts. Their maintenance people are useless and Sun doesn't care.
I had multiple problems a one of their resorts (?) and nothing was done.
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2018 KZ 270thle 2015 Silverado.
2012 GL1800
Western PA
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10-06-2024, 02:29 PM
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#8
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: West Palm Beach, FL. USA
Posts: 28,366
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Quote:
For clarification, the 60 hz frequency is set and controlled by the generating systems across the country all being synchronized with each other. It is simply not possible for a local disturbance to change the actual frequency.
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True, but there are a few caveats: 60 Hz is the US standard frequency, but the acceptable variation from that is not standard. Engineering handbooks say it should be within 0.5% (59.7-60.3), but major statewide grids operate at much wider tolerances, often 2% or 3%. Ditto for auxiliary and portable generators. You are likely to encounter frequencies from 57 Hz to 63 Hz.
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Gary Brinck
Former owner of 2004 American Tradition and several other RVs
Home is now West Palm Beach, FL
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10-06-2024, 05:28 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Wandering below the Gnat Line
Posts: 2,173
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Yes, now that you mention it, it probably was noise. I'd never see it do something so strange.
__________________
-jbh-
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10-06-2024, 11:35 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 6,595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary RVRoamer
True, but there are a few caveats: 60 Hz is the US standard frequency, but the acceptable variation from that is not standard. Engineering handbooks say it should be within 0.5% (59.7-60.3), but major statewide grids operate at much wider tolerances, often 2% or 3%. Ditto for auxiliary and portable generators. You are likely to encounter frequencies from 57 Hz to 63 Hz.
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I cannot imagine clocks running 3 seconds fast or slow as being acceptable.
"I know I'm late again, boss. It's that darn grid, not me!"
For those who did not know, plug-in clocks in the days before crystal control used the 60 hz power system to run at the proper speed.
Ray
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2020 Forest River Georgetown GT5 34H5
2020 Equinox Premier AWD 2.0L/9-speed
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10-06-2024, 11:44 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 6,595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnhicks
Yes, now that you mention it, it probably was noise. I'd never see it do something so strange.
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I'd read about it and then had it happen so I knew what to try. I loosened the bulb on top of the pedestal and the problem stopped.
One thing I don't understand, though, is why no one builds an EMS with two contractors, one for each leg. Low voltage faults often affect just one leg yet the EMS thinks it's OK to kill all power and kill all cooling in the middle of the summer.
That could cause a problem if an RV actually used 240 VAC for things but that's gotta be a fraction of a fraction of one percent.
Maybe some day I'll just install two 30 amp EMS devices on my 50 amp RV, one per leg.
Ray
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2020 Forest River Georgetown GT5 34H5
2020 Equinox Premier AWD 2.0L/9-speed
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10-07-2024, 08:06 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 839
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary RVRoamer
True, but there are a few caveats: 60 Hz is the US standard frequency, but the acceptable variation from that is not standard. Engineering handbooks say it should be within 0.5% (59.7-60.3), but major statewide grids operate at much wider tolerances, often 2% or 3%. Ditto for auxiliary and portable generators. You are likely to encounter frequencies from 57 Hz to 63 Hz.
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You should not see frequency spread from the grid that far. That takes very large disruptions. In normal operations you are going see sub-0.5% fluctuation. There are not "statewide" grids in the US. You have the western interconnect and the eastern interconnect, separated by the continental divide (mostly). And then you have ERCOT in Texas...
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2021 Ram 3500 HO DRW Megacab 4wd 3.73
2022 Riverstone 42FSKG | GenY Executive 6.5k
Airlift 7500XL Airbags w Wireless One Compressor
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10-07-2024, 09:15 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 36,525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnhicks
We're usually complaining here but I want to give kudos.
Back in 2013 I installed a Progressive EMS, just . Over the years it's caught bad grounds several times, any of which could have caused hot skin.
l.
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Bad grounds don't cause hot skin. They protect you from feeling them but you still have a problem causing it.
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10-07-2024, 12:01 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2019
Location: NJ
Posts: 678
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I disagree with this statement: "I consider frequency checking to be feature creep. The only way frequency checking could protect you from anything is if your power source is not synced to the national grid, such as when using a backup generator. Even then those devices have their own checks and controls."
It can be invaluable when running on a generator.. Too much frequency deviation can damage motors when under load !!! Not sure how it would affect electronics...
Safe travels and all the best.
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