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06-09-2018, 04:34 PM
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#1
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Junior Member
Tiffin Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 12
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Sales, Income, Personal Property Tax AGAIN!
I do know that there are multiple posts on this subject. However, most of them are dated and I am confused as to what the CURRENT reality is. It seems the whole titling in Montana is under attack and other states are vigorously fighting against it. I currently live in Virginia but am traveling a great deal although not yet full time. Is there a professional company out there without an axe to grind who knows all of the states and their laws that can help me make the decision? (I am buying an older Allegro Bus this week, which is a VERY significant expense for me) In Virginia we have Sales Tax, Income tax and expensive personal property tax in the jurisdiction where I live. Sorry for asking the "beat a dead horse" question but the information does not seem to be clearly available. Thanks !
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06-09-2018, 05:00 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 745
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Try Deer Creek Corporate Service in Montana I have used them for 7 years no issues, it has to be done right.
__________________
2019 Tiffin Allegro RED 37 PA
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06-09-2018, 05:24 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 8,055
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This is also something I watch. I have not seen any mention of a single authority on all states. Few of those "dated" threads are out of date as this is a slow moving target.
As I understand it the real issue for you is whether or not you want to continue living in VA and want to store your RV at your home. In VA the personal property tax seems to be collected on the basis of where the unit is stored, not where the owner lives. You should verify that. I learned it from some posters commenting about having to keep their MH many miles away to avoid personal property taxes.
Essentially the same thing applies to other states. If you want to register the vehicle in another state then park it in your state you are at risk of having the state declare it should be registered in your state and you are taxed accordingly. Some tried the Montana LLC route assuming that setting up the company in Montana made them exempt from local taxes. High tax states like CA disagreed and collected taxes and fees
If you really want to move out of VA then consider that there are many reasons why Florida, South Dakota, and Texas are states the full timers use. If you will be over 65 so on Medicare and are part timing then there are other states that might be worth looking at. There was a recent thread with over 200 posts discussing this.
Rephrase your idea and you might get better answers here.
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06-09-2018, 07:36 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Back Woods of NC
Posts: 1,407
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On various personal finance websites - Kiplinger.com, Money.com, etc - I see stories ranking the various states by cost of living with the over all tax burden being a large factor.
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06-09-2018, 07:39 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Zebulon, NC
Posts: 5,208
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Welcome to the forum.
Yes, many of the over 500 previous postings are "older" but many are also in the last few months and will still be accurate.
__________________
Kelly and Jerry Powell with Halo (Lethal White Aussie), Nash the Rat Terrorist, and now Reid, the "Brindle we have no idea puppy"
2020 Grand Design Solitude 390RK-R
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06-10-2018, 09:39 AM
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#6
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Senior Member/RVM #90
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Columbus, MS
Posts: 54,622
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Hi ! Welcome to IRV2! We're sure glad you joined the gang!
Sorry, can't help with that.
Good luck, happy trails, and God bless!
__________________
Joe & Annette
Sometimes I sits and thinks, sometimes I just sits.....
2002 Monaco Windsor 40PBT, 2013 Honda CRV AWD
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06-11-2018, 10:15 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Posts: 339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nothermark
This is also something I watch. I have not seen any mention of a single authority on all states. Few of those "dated" threads are out of date as this is a slow moving target.
As I understand it the real issue for you is whether or not you want to continue living in VA and want to store your RV at your home. In VA the personal property tax seems to be collected on the basis of where the unit is stored, not where the owner lives. You should verify that. I learned it from some posters commenting about having to keep their MH many miles away to avoid personal property taxes.
Essentially the same thing applies to other states. If you want to register the vehicle in another state then park it in your state you are at risk of having the state declare it should be registered in your state and you are taxed accordingly. Some tried the Montana LLC route assuming that setting up the company in Montana made them exempt from local taxes. High tax states like CA disagreed and collected taxes and fees
If you really want to move out of VA then consider that there are many reasons why Florida, South Dakota, and Texas are states the full timers use. If you will be over 65 so on Medicare and are part timing then there are other states that might be worth looking at. There was a recent thread with over 200 posts discussing this.
Rephrase your idea and you might get better answers here.
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Your correct on the personal property tax. I live in VA and are storing our RV in Prince William County that does not currently have personal property tax on RVs. You are taxed on where you store the RV not where you live.
__________________
2018 Baystar 3414 - Delivery June 2018
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06-11-2018, 04:46 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 691
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I’m in Virginia as well and my county charges $3.60 per $100 of assessed value for PP tax. It’s ridiculous really...I know there are counties around that don’t charge pp tax, but the thought of buying a DP and then storing it 45 minutes away to avoid Pp tax doesn’t sit well with me either...
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06-13-2018, 08:50 AM
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#9
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: West Palm Beach, FL. USA
Posts: 27,563
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Quote:
It seems the whole titling in Montana is under attack and other states are vigorously fighting against it
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nothermark gave sound advice. It's not that titling in Montana is "under attack" - you can title a vehicle wherever you like. Doing so, however, does NOT automatically make you exempt from the laws of another state. If you live in VA between trips and bring the RV back to VA and keep it there, you are probably subject to VA fees and taxes under VA law.
If you want advice on how to work around VA tax and vehicle fees, you need a tax accountant/lawyer in Virginia who is knowledgeable about that. There is probably nobody in Montana who has the expertise to advise you on that.
__________________
Gary Brinck
Former owner of 2004 American Tradition and several other RVs
Home is West Palm Beach, FL
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06-13-2018, 07:46 PM
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#10
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Junior Member
Tiffin Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 12
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Virginia Law
Thanks for all of the assistance. Seems that Montana now has a $800 Luxury goods tax for any RV over 300K NEW MSRP. Doesnt matter how old it is. It is the MSRP when new. So real titling cost is approx $800 to setup LLC and $800 Luxury Goods tax. Montana is starting to cash in !! I do agree that titling it in Montana does not seem to be a problem.
Va Code 58.1-3511 Says
However, the situs for purposes of assessment of motor vehicles, travel trailers, boats and airplanes as personal property shall be the county, district, town or city where the vehicle is normally garaged, docked or parked
Seems if you are on the move then you may not have a problem here?
Same Code Section says:
Any person domiciled in another state, whose motor vehicle is principally garaged or parked in this Commonwealth during the tax year, shall not be subject to a personal property tax on such vehicle upon a showing of sufficient evidence that such person has paid a personal property tax on the vehicle in the state in which he is domiciled.( clearly none is paid in Montana) In the event it cannot be determined where such personal property, described herein, is normally garaged, stored or parked, the situs shall be the domicile of the owner of such personal property.
It would seem that a Montana LLC's Domicile ( who is the owner) is Montana. Still clear as mud but wanted to add this to the discussion.
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06-13-2018, 07:54 PM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 2,582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go2heaven
I do know that there are multiple posts on this subject. However, most of them are dated and I am confused as to what the CURRENT reality is. It seems the whole titling in Montana is under attack and other states are vigorously fighting against it. I currently live in Virginia but am traveling a great deal although not yet full time. Is there a professional company out there without an axe to grind who knows all of the states and their laws that can help me make the decision? (I am buying an older Allegro Bus this week, which is a VERY significant expense for me) In Virginia we have Sales Tax, Income tax and expensive personal property tax in the jurisdiction where I live. Sorry for asking the "beat a dead horse" question but the information does not seem to be clearly available. Thanks !
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You have a state next to you with no pp tax, no state income tax and no state inspection. Hard to beat Tennessee.
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06-13-2018, 08:00 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Somewhere Nice
Posts: 1,466
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There is so much on this forum and elsewhere about where you should domicile, but I have yet to find a definitive source. We will go full time later this year and intend to move our domicile to avoid the high taxes we are subject to in Michigan. We will need HC coverage since we are 60 and 61. This may force our decision to domicile in Florida, since it offers a lot of HC plans but I don't think have have complete information to make an intelligent decision.
I do know Michigan sucks. I paid over $1,800 to title and register my 10 year old motorhome for one year.
__________________
2008 Monaco Dynasty Squire
Paul & Luci
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06-13-2018, 08:21 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 8,055
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In essence the second paragraph you quoted is the issue:
"Same Code Section says:
Any person domiciled in another state, whose motor vehicle is principally garaged or parked in this Commonwealth during the tax year, shall not be subject to a personal property tax on such vehicle upon a showing of sufficient evidence that such person has paid a personal property tax on the vehicle in the state in which he is domiciled.( clearly none is paid in Montana) In the event it cannot be determined where such personal property, described herein, is normally garaged, stored or parked, the situs shall be the domicile of the owner of such personal property."
It is the position of some states that an LLC is not sufficient to isolate the owner of the LLC from the tax burden.
It still comes back to what are you trying to do. If you are looking for a way to park it in your yard you will need more isolation than a Montana LLC. If you don't want to park it at home you can domicile it in another county in VA. Most states do not have that option. You still have not spelled out what you want to accomplish. Either way a local attorney or CPA can probably tell you how VA handles it and how aggressive the counties are about collecting. Ditto registering in another state and trying to park it long term at your house.
FWIW i had a few chats with NY state tax collectors while I was doing some other work for them. They are not reticent about the information gathering they have available. They get all Federal tax information plus all credit records for starters. Known high income earners like sports figures or prominent actors are routinely tracked by investigators for the state Comptroller. Any annoyed neighbor can complain to them and start an investigation. If they think you are dodging taxes they can and do tap your bank account for the money and let you prove it's not theirs if you can. I think you will find that any other high tax state can do the same things. I would assume the counties in VA just ask the state for information. The only real answer is to consult a local professional about the issue. You could easily end up paying the full shot for the Montana LLC and still have your local county collect "their" money on top of it.
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06-14-2018, 06:09 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Tiffin Owners Club
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Cedar Falls, IA
Posts: 2,226
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I must be missing something. My understanding is that you owe taxes to the place you are legally domiciles. If you have a regular house, that is generally your domicile and you pay taxes accordingly. Full timers still have to pay whatever registration, fees, taxes, etc. for their docimicile, but they have more flexibility about their choice. Trying to get out of taxes for your domicile by registering an item in another area is generally described as tax fraud by tax authorities. There are always those who say it is ok as long as you don’t get caught, but the penalties if you do get caught are severe. Don’t like your domicile taxes? Move somewhere else, but don’t try to get out of them any other way as it generally doesn’t end well.
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