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docj · 03-23-2021, 10:39 AM

For the past several years we've had a 10,000 grain Watts water softener that we've used to deal with hard TX water at our winter location (and elsewhere). However, with the use of a washing machine a softener of that size requires fairly frequent recharging. I know I could have purchased a larger softener but I wanted to share an alternative that we've now installed.

For years there have been a variety of devices that have claimed to combat hard water though the use of electricity and magnetism but I've not been convinced that these had any scientific evidence of actually working. But while investigating these, I did come across what's called Template Assisted Crystallization (TAC) which is sort of a catalytic process in which a "filter" material is used to cause dissolved calcium and magnesium ions to form "soft" crystals which don't cause scale. The minerals are still present in the water but they don't result in the formation of scale. In fact, they are "active" enough to actually remove some of the scale that's previously been formed. In addition TAC eliminates the need to get rid of brine every time you recharge the softener system and reduces the Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) in the wastewater.

If you're interested here's a presentation by scientists at Arizona State University which compares the efficacy of TAC compared to several "electromagnetic" anti-scale systems. The TAC comes out far superior: http://www.714water.com/docs/Peter-F...p-TurboTAC.pdf

I'll be honest and admit that TAC isn't a miracle solution. It has pluses and minuses. Since it doesn't remove the dissolved minerals the actual hardness of the water doesn't change so that you don't get to use less soap. OTOH there are medical studies which show the benefits of drinking water with minerals as opposed to water that has been softened and largely had its minerals removed. Lastly, TAC systems contain a fairly expensive "filter" which has to be replaced every couple of years but in that period you'll not have had to purchase salt and you'll have saved the time spent doing recharges.

It appears that the research on TAC was mostly done ~10 years ago and several companies now have marketed systems based on the concept. One of those is sold by Watts, a well-respected name in the water treatment business and that's the one I have now purchased and installed. The tank is slightly shorter than the one for my 10,000 grain softener and I don't have to provide for getting rid of the brine during recharging. I only need to be able to access the filter every 2-3 years (according to the manufacturer). The directions say to make it the last water treatment element in your system so ahead of it I have plumbed my existing whole house filter in which I use 1 micron filter material.

So now I wait to see if I can detect any differences. The instructions say that for the first 30-90 days there may actually be an increase in the quantity of scale buildup in faucet aerators, etc., because the treated water will break down some of the already existing scale that has accumulated in the plumbing. Beyond that I'll have to see if there seems to be less scale in the plumbing, but exactly how I will measure that I don't know. It's difficult to measure the efficacy of a system whose efficacy you have no direct way of measuring!

My intent in posting this is to acquaint people with the concept of TAC so that they can evaluate if it might appeal to them. I have no business interest in Watts or any other water treatment company.

tscarps · 03-23-2021, 05:49 PM

Which system did you buy?

docj · 03-23-2021, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tscarps

Which system did you buy?

This one: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

tscarps · 03-23-2021, 06:22 PM

Thanks! Curious to see how it works for you long term. definitely a viable solution

chunker · 03-24-2021, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docj

So now I wait to see if I can detect any differences. The instructions say that for the first 30-90 days there may actually be an increase in the quantity of scale buildup in faucet aerators, etc., because the treated water will break down some of the already existing scale that has accumulated in the plumbing. Beyond that I'll have to see if there seems to be less scale in the plumbing, but exactly how I will measure that I don't know. It's difficult to measure the efficacy of a system whose efficacy you have no direct wy.

If true then that will be a problem with many faucet aerators. Example is the sink sprayer end in the kitchen of the Raptor. It doesn't have any removable/cleanable parts to get that released scale out. Many other faucet ends can be removed, disassembled, and soaked in vinegar to clean them. Unfortunately RV stuff is typically low end and not cleanable.

docj · 03-24-2021, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunker

Unfortunately RV stuff is typically low end and not cleanable.

With all due respect, that's not necessarily true. Our MH was delivered with a Moen kitchen faucet and Pfister lavatory faucets. I've disassembled both and replaced cartridges without difficulty.

DRM901 · 03-24-2021, 10:50 AM

Interesting. I hope you will post a 90 day followup. I've been looking at an RO system, but that would only be for drinking.

530ktm · 03-24-2021, 11:16 AM

I use the Watts 10,000 system and love it. I have soft water at my home also and have always enjoyed the effects of soft water. This unit sounds interesting but if you do not get the effects of less soap and slippery water not to mention no calcium build up I think I would be disappointed. And it appears that filter is around $300 to replace every once in a while. Let us know what you think after you have used it for some time.

MemByTheMile · 03-24-2021, 02:24 PM

Following, want to hear how this works out after a few months.

docj · 03-24-2021, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 530ktm

I use the Watts 10,000 system and love it. I have soft water at my home also and have always enjoyed the effects of soft water. This unit sounds interesting but if you do not get the effects of less soap and slippery water not to mention no calcium build up I think I would be disappointed. And it appears that filter is around $300 to replace every once in a while. Let us know what you think after you have used it for some time.

This system should definitely stop the calcium build-up; that appears to be documented in the ASU presentation that I attached to my previous post. But it definitely doesn't provide the slippery feel of softened water. That's Ok with me since I never enjoyed the feel or taste.

As for the filter costs, the de-scaling filter costs ~$200 and the de-chlorinizing filter costs ~$100. They claim that the scale filter will last ~3 years but there's no real way of knowing when to replace it since you can't test for whether or not it is working. I have a whole house filter ahead of this unit so I doubt the pre-filter will need to be replaced all that often.

chunker · 03-25-2021, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docj

With all due respect, that's not necessarily true. Our MH was delivered with a Moen kitchen faucet and Pfister lavatory faucets. I've disassembled both and replaced cartridges without difficulty.

True if you are getting a better to high end over $3-400K in todays market. My Itasca Horizon, 2007 model, had Moen and it's cost in 07 was almost $300K. My $90K Raptor has cheap plastic stuff. Bath faucets have removable cleanable strainers but kitchen other than soaking, can't be disassembled and cleaned. Quality cost $$$ and quality isn't in the bulk of RVs.

153stars · 03-28-2021, 03:05 PM

If that's the route you want to go. We have several of these installed at work, they do help, especially on hot water pressure washer or retired steam jenny. The Cartridges are affordable.

docj · 03-28-2021, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 153stars

If that's the route you want to go. We have several of these installed at work, they do help, especially on hot water pressure washer or retired steam jenny. The Cartridges are affordable.

Since you use these in a work environment, how do you know when it's time to change the cartridge? Testing the water still shows the same hardness since the minerals are still present, so how do you know if the system is still working properly? For my system the Watts recommendation is to replace the cartridge every 3 years; is that dependent on the volume of water going through the system or the hardness?