Surge Protection Progressive vs SurgeGuard

[JohnH12]

I've seen several on this forum recommending the Progressive Industries surge protector, partially due to the lifetime warranty, but have some questions about the actual protection specs.
Note: I have built in surge protection on the 2017 Discovery and a Hughes Autoformer so am just looking at an additional, portable surge protector. I just believe that the surge threat from our Florida and SE USA weather warrants the additional device.
The Progressive SSP-50XL, just surge protection I assume, is rated for 1650J / 45,000A.

The SurgeGuard model 44290 50 amp surge protector is rated for 4550J / 84500 amps.

If I'm reading the specs right and comparing apples to apples the SurgeGuard offers the best protection.
If I'm not interpreting these correct please tell me how I'm off.

[barmcd]

I think you're right, but the EMS-HW50C is good for 88,000A. I believe it's also a lot higher priced.

[Steve Ownby]

Originally Posted by JohnH12

I've seen several on this forum recommending the Progressive Industries surge protector, partially due to the lifetime warranty, but have some questions about the actual protection specs.

Note: I have built in surge protection on the 2017 Discovery and a Hughes Autoformer so am just looking at an additional, portable surge protector. I just believe that the surge threat from our Florida and SE USA weather warrants the additional device.

The Progressive SSP-50XL, just surge protection I assume, is rated for 1650J / 45,000A.



The SurgeGuard model 44290 50 amp surge protector is rated for 4550J / 84500 amps.



If I'm reading the specs right and comparing apples to apples the SurgeGuard offers the best protection.

If I'm not interpreting these correct please tell me how I'm off.

I'm unclear why you need additional "surge" protection. If you have the Hughes and the protection built into your coach, what are you looking for?

What your really need is an EMS than monitors the incoming power for high/low voltage; open ground or open neutral; incorrect polarity and frequency. All of these issues can be destructive to equipment and human life and your surge protection does nothing to protect you from these conditions.

[JohnH12]

Originally Posted by Steve Ownby

I'm unclear why you need additional "surge" protection. If you have the Hughes and the protection built into your coach, what are you looking for?

What your really need is an EMS than monitors the incoming power for high/low voltage; open ground or open neutral; incorrect polarity and frequency. All of these issues can be destructive to equipment and human life and your surge protection does nothing to protect you from these conditions.

The Hughes does all that and will boost the voltage if it's low.
It will also act as a surge protector but is sacrificial so I hope that the $100 portable surge suppressor would take the hit and the $500+ Hughes would be OK.

[Steve Ownby]

Originally Posted by JohnH12

The Hughes does all that and will boost the voltage if it's low.

It will also act as a surge protector but is sacrificial so I hope that the $100 portable surge suppressor would take the hit and the $500+ Hughes would be OK.

John, the Hughes monitors and boosts voltage only. It does not monitor or address any of the other conditions. When I put voltage gets down in the low 90s it stops boosting and passes the low voltage directly into the coach. I have a Hughes and it's always plugged in but I also have a Progressive EMS.

I don't disagree with using a surge protector only at the post to protect the Hughes.

[MSHappyCampers]

Originally Posted by JohnH12

The Hughes does all that and will boost the voltage if it's low.
It will also act as a surge protector but is sacrificial so I hope that the $100 portable surge suppressor would take the hit and the $500+ Hughes would be OK.

Not sure what $100 portable you are referring to, as the Progressive Industries PT50X portable is about $350.

[vsheetz]

I don't have the Hugh's Autoformer, but do have the PI surge only portable I use at the pedistal in front of onboard PI full EMS. I like the double protection and hopefully the portable will protect the full EMS. I also use the portable unit to check that a pedistal is alive and basically well before I go to the effort of parking the coach on the site.

Maybe Santa will bring me the Hughes Autoformer as well. (-:

[Pappystoy]

Originally Posted by JohnH12

I've seen several on this forum recommending the Progressive Industries surge protector, partially due to the lifetime warranty, but have some questions about the actual protection specs.
Note: I have built in surge protection on the 2017 Discovery and a Hughes Autoformer so am just looking at an additional, portable surge protector. I just believe that the surge threat from our Florida and SE USA weather warrants the additional device.
The Progressive SSP-50XL, just surge protection I assume, is rated for 1650J / 45,000A.

The SurgeGuard model 44290 50 amp surge protector is rated for 4550J / 84500 amps.

If I'm reading the specs right and comparing apples to apples the SurgeGuard offers the best protection.
If I'm not interpreting these correct please tell me how I'm off.

Are you using fuses or circuit breakers? We studied this hooking up our solar. Maybe it will help you don't know. Hubby knows more about this than me and he is busy right now. Here is a video.

https://youtu.be/3dckmSgp1nw?t=85

[okmunky]

At $350 it is the cheapest insurance you can buy. Count up all of the electric and electronic gadgets in your MH. Imagine how a trip would be without them. Imagine the hassle and expense of replacing them.

I bought a hardwired PI EMS before I picked up my MH. it has prevented several mishaps.

[JohnH12]

Originally Posted by MSHappyCampers

Not sure what $100 portable you are referring to, as the Progressive Industries PT50X portable is about $350.

Camping World routinely has the SurgeGuard on sale for a bit over $100.

[MSHappyCampers]

Originally Posted by JohnH12

Camping World routinely has the SurgeGuard on sale for a bit over $100.

I think that would be the basic surge protection model, not the one that protects you against everything!

[Jeffcarp]

In my opinion, you are kind of wasting your money on the units that are in the low $100 range.

These lower prices devices only really do two things. They protect against incorrect wiring at the pedestal and they protect against catastrophic surges, maybe.

The problem is that those two types of events aren't very common. You need the higher-priced units in order to protect against the electrical problems that you are more likely to run into. Of particular importance is protecting against over-voltage and under-voltage.

Under-voltage can occur in more remote, rural areas. On hot summer days when the campground is loaded, all of that increased electrical load can cause the voltage to dip to an unsafe level which raises the current to your coach and can burn out electronics. The rise is no where near the level that a surge suppressor would activate at but you still burn up your equipment.

The same goes for over-voltage situations. In a lightning storm or in the case of an animal on a powerline, utility grids have things called reclosers. The power grid senses the disruption to the power line, the circuit opens and then the recloser slams it shut again in an attempt to automatically clear the fault if possible and restore power without dispatching a lineman. This recloser can cause a voltage spike. Again, it's no where near the level that would cause a surge suppressor to activate but it's still enough to fry your equipment.

Last point is to not expect even the $400 surge protectors to keep your equipment safe. It likely will protect your coach from catastrophic destruction but likely will not save your electronics. None of these types of units are actually recognized as surge suppressors by UL. Only UL surge suppressors have a specification called the clamping voltage. The clamping voltage is the voltage that is allowed to pass through to your equipment upon a catastrophic surge hitting the suppressor. You'll notice that there is no such thing as a clamping voltage published for any of these products. Joules are not recognized by UL. So yes, these products will stop a massive surge but they still might pass through 600V or 800V or 1000V to your equipment. That's still going to blow up your TV.

I do own one of these more expensive units and I consider it an insurance policy.

If you have specific pieces of electronics that you must protect then I'd use the expensive RV suppressor and then buy a UL 1449 listed surge suppressor and plug that piece of electronics directly into it.

[l1v3fr33ord1]

JohnH12-

If you have a Progressive EMS-HW50C already in your coach, then it is protected against many AC problems. If you don't, you need to buy and install one.

The Hughes autoformer increases voltage in low-voltage conditions. Hughes now offers a model with "built-in" surge protection. I can't comment on how well that works, or if your model includes that protection.

Here's a lineup of equipment that protects against many things:

Post
Surge protector (PI or Surge-Guard, your choice)
Shore cord
Hughes autoformer
PI EMS-HW50C
Transfer switch

For those who don't trust their generator to put out clean power:

Post
Surge protector (PI or Surge-Guard, your choice)
Shore cord
Hughes autoformer
Transfer switch
PI EMS-HW50C

Note that in both cases the autoformer is unprotected from anything other than what the surge protector provides.

<edit>I downloaded the owners manual for the 2017 Discovery. On page 155 it shows a Surge-Guard 41260" transfer switch. Here's a link to a page describing that switch. It supplies protection from:

• Open neutral
• Reverse polarity

and "basic surge protection of 2600 joules at 76,400 Amps."


I believe that while this is an "enhanced" transfer switch it does not provide the same protections as the PI EMS-HW50C:


• Over/Under voltage Protection
• Open Ground, Open Neutral & Reverse Polarity Detection
• Open Ground, Open Neutral & Reverse Polarity Protection
• Accidental 240V Protection
• Miswired Pedestal Indication
• Surge Failure Indicator


so, I'd still recommend the PI EMS.


I realize I didn't give an answer to your original question, which is "Which is better, the PI or Surge-Guard surge protectors?" i don't have either one, so I can' say. I can say that the PI EMS-HW30C I have in my coach gives me peace of mind.</edit>

[JohnH12]

Originally Posted by Jalan

In my opinion, you are kind of wasting your money on the units that are in the low $100 range.

These lower prices devices only really do two things. They protect against incorrect wiring at the pedestal and they protect against catastrophic surges, maybe.

The problem is that those two types of events aren't very common. You need the higher-priced units in order to protect against the electrical problems that you are more likely to run into. Of particular importance is protecting against over-voltage and under-voltage.

Under-voltage can occur in more remote, rural areas. On hot summer days when the campground is loaded, all of that increased electrical load can cause the voltage to dip to an unsafe level which raises the current to your coach and can burn out electronics. The rise is no where near the level that a surge suppressor would activate at but you still burn up your equipment.

The same goes for over-voltage situations. In a lightning storm or in the case of an animal on a powerline, utility grids have things called reclosers. The power grid senses the disruption to the power line, the circuit opens and then the recloser slams it shut again in an attempt to automatically clear the fault if possible and restore power without dispatching a lineman. This recloser can cause a voltage spike. Again, it's no where near the level that would cause a surge suppressor to activate but it's still enough to fry your equipment.

Last point is to not expect even the $400 surge protectors to keep your equipment safe. It likely will protect your coach from catastrophic destruction but likely will not save your electronics. None of these types of units are actually recognized as surge suppressors by UL. Only UL surge suppressors have a specification called the clamping voltage. The clamping voltage is the voltage that is allowed to pass through to your equipment upon a catastrophic surge hitting the suppressor. You'll notice that there is no such thing as a clamping voltage published for any of these products. Joules are not recognized by UL. So yes, these products will stop a massive surge but they still might pass through 600V or 800V or 1000V to your equipment. That's still going to blow up your TV.

I do own one of these more expensive units and I consider it an insurance policy.

If you have specific pieces of electronics that you must protect then I'd use the expensive RV suppressor and then buy a UL 1449 listed surge suppressor and plug that piece of electronics directly into it.

Jalan,
Not sure if this is what you are saying but the Surge Guard 44290 specs list a max spike current of "TBD UL1449", with a Clamping voltage of 84,500A.
I'll have the surge guard plugged into the post, then to the Hughes, and then power flows through the Discovery transfer switch which I believe also has surge protection.
I'm just hoping the inexpensive surge guard being first in line will offer some level of protection for the more expensive items downstream.
Of course what I really hope for is that it never gets tested, just like all the insurance, dash cam, and fire extinguishers I have.
If not, I may have wasted my money.