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02-19-2014, 12:58 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Somewhere....
Posts: 4,054
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky_Boss
Personally, I am not a huge proponent of making Comfort Drive a major issue in the tag axle MH comparison. It is nice but I don't think it should be an excessively weighted point in the Newmar vs Entegra comparisons. According to the Newmar sales guy, both FL and Spartan have picked up an exclusive agreement with Newmar for CD that will expire in May of either 2014 or 2015 but I don't remember which. After that point, we will see if CD systems will become more widespread...assuming another agreement isn't reached. BTW, in non-tag MHs, CD might be more important but for now, Entegra is exclusively tag axle oriented unless they have something up their sleeve that I haven't heard of.
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Neither Spartan nor FL ever had an exclusive agreement with TRW for the Comfort Drive. Newmar did, and they had both Spartan and FL incorporate it into the chassis for Newmar. That exclusive has expired, and anyone can license Column Drive (the real name for the TRW product). Only Newmar (Comfort Drive) and Newell (EZ-Steer) currently do so.
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2008 King Aire 4562, Spartan K3(GT) w/ Cummins ISX 600
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 5.7L V8 Hemi w/ Blue Ox Aventa LX Tow Bar and baseplate, SMI Air Force One brake
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02-19-2014, 01:08 PM
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#16
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Administrator in Memoriam
Newmar Owners Club Retired Fire Service RVer's Spartan Chassis
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Newark, DE
Posts: 25,898
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I agree that is correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingDiver
Neither Spartan nor FL ever had an exclusive agreement with TRW for the Comfort Drive. Newmar did, and they had both Spartan and FL incorporate it into the chassis for Newmar. That exclusive has expired, and anyone can license Column Drive (the real name for the TRW product). Only Newmar (Comfort Drive) and Newell (EZ-Steer) currently do so.
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Adios, Dirk - '84 Real Lite Truck Camper, '86 Wilderness Cimarron TT, previously 4 years as a fulltimer in a '07 DSDP
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02-19-2014, 01:15 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club Freightliner Owners Club Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: ON THE ROAD...SOMEWHERE
Posts: 6,973
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingDiver
Neither Spartan nor FL ever had an exclusive agreement with TRW for the Comfort Drive. Newmar did, and they had both Spartan and FL incorporate it into the chassis for Newmar. That exclusive has expired, and anyone can license Column Drive (the real name for the TRW product). Only Newmar (Comfort Drive) and Newell (EZ-Steer) currently do so.
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Please re-read what I said earlier...
OK...let me repeat what I said in a different way...
The TRW agreement with Newmar has expired. According to the Newmar sales executive, Newmar has an exclusive agreement with Spartan and FL (Not TRW) that Spartan and FL would not put CD (Comfort or Column Drive) on chassis for other competitors for an additional 2 years after the TRW deal expired. I suppose that could be renegotiated but that is not something being talked about yet.
So...if a MH has a Spartan or FL chassis, it will only have CD if is being used with a Newmar product. It would appear, as you alluded to, that since this is not an agreement with TRW that others that make or obtain non Spartan or FL chassis might very well have Column Drive on them. I just didn't address that factor since this thread was about Entegra and Newmar thus not a factor for this thread.
At least, that is what I thought I said.
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Don, Sandee & GSD Zeus. Guardian GSDs Gunny (7/11/15) & Thor (5/5/15)
2006 2015 DSDP 4320 4369, FL Chassis, 2013 CR-V 2020 Jeep Overland, Blue Ox Avail, SMI AF1.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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02-19-2014, 01:20 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Somewhere....
Posts: 4,054
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky_Boss
Please re-read what I said earlier...
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OK, I did. Your clarification is a much better way to say what you wanted to say....
__________________
2008 King Aire 4562, Spartan K3(GT) w/ Cummins ISX 600
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 5.7L V8 Hemi w/ Blue Ox Aventa LX Tow Bar and baseplate, SMI Air Force One brake
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02-19-2014, 01:52 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,695
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I don't know that I've seen a lot of "Entegra is a better coach" from Entegra folks. I've seen some "Newmar is a better coach than Entegra" with most of the discussion being the availability of comfort drive and customization. I've been to the factories, and, as Cruzer says, the build process is similar. Quality of materials and appointments are similar. When I shopped, I compared Duch Star to aspire and Mountain Aire (all electric) and Anthem. In both cases, the coaches were similarly equipped, with the exception of Comfort Drive. In Sep 2012 (note the date), at that time, Newmar was about $50k more. I chose Anthem, but if I'd have chosen ANY other coach, it would have been Newmar. I had eliminated Tiffin, Winnebago, Monaco, Itasca, American Coach etc for various reasons, mostly revolving around taste, cost, and/or what I viewed as lesser quality (JHMO).
This year at Tampa, I compared Essex closely to Cornerstone (felt that there were sufficient differences with King Aire in appointments and fit/finish that a comparison wasn't fair beyond chassis, power plant, etc). Honestly, I don't understand Essex pricing at MSRP, it was $125K for similar appointments to Cornerstone, yet less HP, torque...and IMHO, the interiors were dark, and dated with where the public seems to want interiors, me included. So as I look at potentially upgrading, I went back to American Coach, Zephyr, and Cornerstone, and believe, JMHO and hands down, Cornerstone offers more for the money. Given the choice, I'd buy King Aire, but I'm not sure there is $300k worth of difference.
Yes, Entegra pricing is creeping up. They definitely need work on floor plans. If full wall slides are considered structurally sound, then they need to add this across their product line. If they don't, it is going to start affecting their sales numbers, IMHO.
From this quarter, I don't have a sword drawn for Newmar. I just don't understand their pricing structure. Going to a cheaper chassis, but not passing on those savings to the consumer. JMHO
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Dave and Beth
2015 Cornerstone 45J
2020 Ford F-150 Lariat
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02-19-2014, 01:56 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Fleetwood Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 249
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I am curious as to why American Coach is not in this discussion. I know of one Gentleman than flew into the Tampa Super Show from CA just to look at Newmar and Entegra. He stopped at the American Coach display and bought an 2014 Eagle 45B.
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2014 American Eagle 45N
Spartan Liberty Chassis
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02-19-2014, 02:01 PM
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#21
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,695
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And I know an American Eagle owner (2013) that just traded for an Entegra because he was cold all the time in his AC. AC does have some snappy floor plans.
Had to laugh though at one of the AC salesmen at Tampa...he told me that they had passed on some suggestions to the Entegra management that would make their coaches "...more competitive..." seriously???!!!!
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Dave and Beth
2015 Cornerstone 45J
2020 Ford F-150 Lariat
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02-19-2014, 04:36 PM
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#22
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Senior Member
Fleetwood Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 249
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I apologize for my comments. Everyone knows that Enterga Coaches have no flaws in design or construction. My comment was not negative towards any brand. I simply stated that i knew someone that looked at all three brands and selected an Eagle.
Dave
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2014 American Eagle 45N
Spartan Liberty Chassis
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02-19-2014, 05:27 PM
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#23
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 8,137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfunde01
I am curious as to why American Coach is not in this discussion. I know of one Gentleman than flew into the Tampa Super Show from CA just to look at Newmar and Entegra. He stopped at the American Coach display and bought an 2014 Eagle 45B.
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I also think AC belongs in this discussion. Their coach is comparable in many ways and has great looks, some lovely floor plans and other fine features. If I were in the market to buy I would be looking at these three (AC, Entegra, Newmar).
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Marc and Jill, Wellington FL
2013 Entegra Anthem 44SL
2018 Lincoln MKX
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02-19-2014, 05:33 PM
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#24
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfunde01
I apologize for my comments. Everyone knows that Enterga Coaches have no flaws in design or construction. My comment was not negative towards any brand. I simply stated that i knew someone that looked at all three brands and selected an Eagle.
Dave
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Didn't know I was offended; however, I do recognize sarcasm and I'm sorry i offended you. Didn't suggest that Entegra Coaches don't have flaws. Quite the contrary, complimented AC floor plans (and knocked Entegra's among other things). Not the first time we haven't communicated well, but I hold no issue with AC. Given a choice, I would choose Entegra or Newmar rather than AC, but also stated that was personal preference and JMHO.
I am sorry if my comment about the AC salesman's comment hit you the wrong way...just thought it an amusing anecdote. Peace.
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Dave and Beth
2015 Cornerstone 45J
2020 Ford F-150 Lariat
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02-19-2014, 06:06 PM
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#25
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Senior Member
American Coach Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Van,Tx
Posts: 435
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I will drag an Entegra and Newmar behind my AC until they both fall apart!!!
You guys are to much Enjoying every minute of it.
Eric
__________________
2011 American Coach 42P Tradition
Pressure Pro
2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited
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02-19-2014, 06:16 PM
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#26
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Green D
I will drag an Entegra and Newmar behind my AC until they both fall apart!!!
You guys are to much Enjoying every minute of it.
Eric
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LOL, great sense of humor!! So you're one of the "lucky"ones with the Tradition!! We're still hoping for one, but the stock market is really going to have to go our way
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2013 Polaris RZR 4/900
Location: Colorado
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02-19-2014, 06:29 PM
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#27
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,695
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I do have a sense of humor, but i can't use the quotes from Full Metal Jacket ... let's see, Well, you eat the peanuts out of my ... nononnono. Never mind. That AC has a hellacious pulling power....can the Allison really handle that much torque...wow, two 50k coaches
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Dave and Beth
2015 Cornerstone 45J
2020 Ford F-150 Lariat
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02-19-2014, 06:35 PM
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#28
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Senior Member
American Coach Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Van,Tx
Posts: 435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nforus
LOL, great sense of humor!! So you're one of the "lucky"ones with the Tradition!! We're still hoping for one, but the stock market is really going to have to go our way
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Ya see guys this is how ya suppose to play ! Hes looking down on me in my Ole Tradition and making me feel good about it.
Eric
__________________
2011 American Coach 42P Tradition
Pressure Pro
2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited
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