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SRT · 03-03-2008, 03:27 AM

Ran across this URL on another forum. Very interesting article.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...538412,00.html

SRT · 03-03-2008, 03:27 AM

Ran across this URL on another forum. Very interesting article.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...538412,00.html

beaverjim · 03-03-2008, 04:39 AM

srt, good article! thanks for posting it. jim.

03-03-2008, 04:58 AM

True statements. For the last year or 2 etrading on oil futures has been growing, falsely driving the prices up on crude, gasoline and heating oil (diesel, etc). For example, people in their computer den at home have been buying barge lots of 40,000 gallons and selling at a higher price.

The large financial institutions have been putting billions into oil futures to hedge against their losses in credit, mortgages etc.

So everyone wants their large cake and to eat it too.

Granted emerging economies in other countries have had an impact but it is not causing this obscene price for oil.

If you watch the prices they go up if a cloud is in the forecast, if there are no clouds in the forecast or any irrelevant reason you can think of the price goes up. If there is a production, pipeline or supply problem the crude price would normally rise. But now it is pure stupids when a refinery shuts down for whatever reason the price of crude goes up. If the price of gasoline or diesel went up that would make sense but not the price of crude.

Tom N · 03-03-2008, 05:24 AM

Futures hinge on the fact that worldwide supply will decrease and worldwide demand will increase. No one can argue with that.

Thus, the underlying cause of oil pricing is supply and demand.

-Tom

SRT · 03-03-2008, 08:35 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Sarver, PA/Crystal River, FL/Indiana, PA </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But in this case there seems to be an adequate supply of crude and demand has decreased (supposedly) in the US. Hmm, I think the Law of Supply and Demand is not quite working as these speculators are short-circuiting things - IMHO.

RustyJC · 03-03-2008, 09:07 AM

At least here in the US, inventories are up and demand has decreased slightly in recent weeks. Normally, this would result in dropping crude oil and refined product prices. A number of analysts contend that the commodities markets have kept the prices artificially high as investors are using oil and refined products as hedges against a declining dollar.

Rusty

chasfm11 · 03-03-2008, 11:58 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">A number of analysts contend that the commodities markets have kept the prices artificially high as investors are using oil and refined products as hedges against a declining dollar </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wonder what part of our "free market economy" that falls under? Under other circumstances, that could be interpreted as price fixing.

Assuming that the "investors" are not financially tied to the oil industry, who has enough money to be buying commodities at that level and sitting on them? It certainly sounds like an opportunity for some governmental investigation.

Spoonman · 03-03-2008, 02:11 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chasfm11:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">A number of analysts contend that the commodities markets have kept the prices artificially high as investors are using oil and refined products as hedges against a declining dollar </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wonder what part of our "free market economy" that falls under? Under other circumstances, that could be interpreted as price fixing.

Assuming that the "investors" are not financially tied to the oil industry, who has enough money to be buying commodities at that level and sitting on them? It certainly sounds like an opportunity for some governmental investigation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The government would love to look into this on our behalf,but all their resourses are tied up investigating Roger Clemons & Barry Bond.

Hitchhiker · 03-03-2008, 02:24 PM

Maybe the oil price bubble will go the same way as the real estate price bubble and head south?

Tom N · 03-03-2008, 02:24 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SRT:
But in this case there seems to be an adequate supply of crude and demand has decreased (supposedly) in the US. Hmm, I think the Law of Supply and Demand is not quite working as these speculators are short-circuiting things - IMHO. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But the money players are betting oil demand will increase.

If world demand decreases the money players lose.

Where would you place your bets???

-Tom

Tom N · 03-03-2008, 02:29 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RustyJC:
At least here in the US, inventories are up and demand has decreased slightly in recent weeks.

Rusty </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The US used to be the only major player in oil demand. That has changed and that is what hurts.

-Tom

Tom N · 03-03-2008, 02:33 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RustyJC:
A number of analysts contend that the commodities markets have kept the prices artificially high as investors are using oil and refined products as hedges against a declining dollar.

Rusty </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is true. Oil is a commodity in demand, the same as gold. Holding gold or oil will protect one against the decline in the value of the US dollar.

-Tom

RedneckExpress · 03-03-2008, 02:51 PM

This was one reason I kept saying that trading on Oil Futures should be frozen until fuel prices drop back down to 1998 prices. Probably not very realistic, but eh, didn't say it was.

I'm also to the point where I'm of the opinion that since fuel is the backbone of our entire country's economy, that we may need to start handling it differently.

One, would be to require ALL states to have a minimum number of refineries in their state in order to recieve federal dollars for roads, and other public services (Food stamps, things that are big dollar amounts).