Why not just use gas?

[helopilot880]

Been following the thread, we plan to buy a Class A. To me, the main question is the difference in towing ability between gas and diesel. I plan to tow my F-150 which weighs in at about 5300 pounds. Due to the lighter frames on a gas MH, none seem capable to towing the F-150 and stay under the MH weight limits. I would rather have gas, due mainly cost and better floor plans, but due to towing ability looks like diesel is the best option. All the of discussions so far are centered on cost but do not really address the real issue for most, towing ability between the two options. I know some would say get another vehicle, but to do so would add to the cost of a gasser to point to where diesel make more sense, plus I got the F150 for its other attributes not found in a smaller/lighter vehicle.

[Danny Salas]

Originally Posted by radar

I used to love the morning walk around as the coach aired up. The sounds, the smell. Way fun. I’ll miss that now that we have gone to an 18 foot teardrop being pulled by an electric SUV. Kind of makes a whirring noise if you get up close and it’s quiet.

Oh well. On to new things and new camp campgrounds. .

Can you tell me which electric are you using? Tesla, or other brand? Any concerns with range while towing? I am waiting for the e-Transit to be mainstream, to convert one. Currently driving a Transit 350 LWB discreet conversion, enough for two weekenders.

[Danny Salas]

Originally Posted by move on

Diesel is more energy efficient, more environmentally friendly and much cheaper to own and operate than electric. EV are trendy now but they are not the future, especially for RVers.

More environmentally friendly? Over 20 years of heavy use? I believe all the diesel burning will negate whatever environmental damage the battery production create. Check you info, it may be outdated. Also, electric vehicles benefit when the source for electricity improves the environmental aspect (coal to nuclear, to solar or wind) and that change is happening right now. Install solar panels on you roof, (unless you are a full timer) and your energy comes in environmentally anf financially free forever.
And I won’t even go into maintenance and repair costs. Electrics do not nees transmission, radiator, oil changes. And brakes last at least triple than in a regular vehicle.
Agreed that they are nowhere near ready for heavy loads and long distance travel, and may never be in our lifetimes.

[radar]

Originally Posted by Danny Salas

Can you tell me which electric are you using? Tesla, or other brand? Any concerns with range while towing? I am waiting for the e-Transit to be mainstream, to convert one. Currently driving a Transit 350 LWB discreet conversion, enough for two weekenders.

Tesla. The car is supposed to arrive in January and the Teardrop in Feb or March now. Should be fun.

Our range needs are probably quite a bit shorter than most peoples. We do a lot of local camping as we live in BC. And even when we had the pusher we quite often only travelled a couple hours and then stayed for a few days, hiked the trails, see all the waterfalls, check out the local attractions. I get the impression most people on this board travel 8 or 10 hours a day with their RV’s. I don’t think an electric tow vehicle would be very good at that. We are usually on the road by 11 AM and off by 1 in the afternoon.

Jmho.

[Danny Salas]

Originally Posted by radar

Tesla. The car is supposed to arrive in January and the Teardrop in Feb or March now. Should be fun.

Our range needs are probably quite a bit shorter than most peoples. We do a lot of local camping as we live in BC. And even when we had the pusher we quite often only travelled a couple hours and then stayed for a few days, hiked the trails, see all the waterfalls, check out the local attractions. I get the impression most people on this board travel 8 or 10 hours a day with their RV’s. I don’t think an electric tow vehicle would be very good at that. We are usually on the road by 11 AM and off by 1 in the afternoon.

Jmho.

Thanks for the prompt reply. I had the impression that you were already camping and towing on EV. And I am not aware of another options other than Model Y/ Model X available for towing a travel trailer. Ford Lightning is just strting to hit the market.

[radar]

Originally Posted by Danny Salas

Thanks for the prompt reply. I had the impression that you were already camping and towing on EV. And I am not aware of another options other than Model Y/ Model X available for towing a travel trailer. Ford Lightning is just strting to hit the market.

Yah. Lots coming to market.

Our friends have the same combo we have coming so they have been helpful in sorting out some of the little stuff like brake control, ball mount etc. Hopefully everything arrives when the weather gets nice. We have some pretty long trips planned but we tend to hike a lot so we don’t go far each day. Should be a lot easier getting on and off the ferries. . I suspect we’ll be like a goldfish and grow accustomed to our new 18 foot space. .

[n2zon]

Originally Posted by Jarlaxle

Possible, I guess. The complexity isn't really the problem, it's the cost. For the price of a bad exhaust filter-or the result of a few ounces of water in the fuel tank-I can put a rebuilt engine in a gasser!

No question but that diesels cost more to purchase, maintain, and repair. I'm just reacting to the "diesels are more complicated than gassers" notion, which I'm pretty sure is just not the case.

[CRV2]

Originally Posted by n2zon

No question but that diesels cost more to purchase, maintain, and repair. I'm just reacting to the "diesels are more complicated than gassers" notion, which I'm pretty sure is just not the case.

I agree that a diesel engine isn't more complicated, however with that in mind, it is true that there are fewer mechanics with the skills to work on a diesel which may make one think that the reason for fewer diesel mechanics is that the diesels are more complicated.

[Unplanned Tourist]

Originally Posted by n2zon

No question but that diesels cost more to purchase, maintain, and repair. I'm just reacting to the "diesels are more complicated than gassers" notion, which I'm pretty sure is just not the case.

Complicated or complex?

When's the last time you saw DEF, DPF, ATA, variable vane turbo and the dozens of sensors that accompany them on a gas powered RV? Don't get me started on the injection control systems for modern diesel engines.

[Kountry_star]

Originally Posted by RM Art

Sandia Nat Labs: Battery Tech improvements take time to accomplish... read on for insight to research.

BTW - One of my organizations had CRADA with Sandia. Company of mine is planning to enact another CRADA in near future. Neither of my CRADA have to do with batteries. That said, I do keep up on many of Sandia's projects. Previously, my company sponsored and I co-chaired day long scientist and engineer meeting at one of Sandia's main facilities, Livermore CA.

Sandia Labs News Release - December 2, 2021 8:12 am

New testing method yields pathway to better, longer-lasting batteries
LIVERMORE, Calif.

Using a microscopic method for measuring electrical potential, a team of scientists at Sandia National Laboratories may have discovered how to make a longer-lasting, more efficient battery.

The team of Elliot Fuller, Josh Sugar and Alec Talin detailed their findings in an article published Oct. 19 in American Chemical Society Energy Letters.

“One of the challenges with solid-state batteries is that at the boundaries between different parts of the battery — a cathode and a layer of ion-conducting electrolyte, let’s say — something interferes with the flow of electrons,” Talin said.

Team at Sandia National Laboratories used Kelvin probe force microscopy to locate places where electron flows get stuck, potentially leading to engineering longer-lasting, more efficient batteries.

Solid-state batteries employ solid electrolytes instead of electrochemical gels and liquids and generally power small electronics. Most researchers suspected that there was a loss of voltage or electrical potential at interfaces within the battery, but not which interface was responsible for most of the impedance in the battery. The team started work five years ago to get some clarity.

“There were two main motivations for this. The first was fundamental: we want to have good models for batteries that we can use to develop better materials,” Talin explained. “The second thing was to figure out how we can engineer the interfaces to make them less impeding. In our case, it really has to do a lot with how fast lithium ions can move in the Si anode used in the study.”

They turned to Kelvin probe force microscopy, which measures electrical potential on a surface, and while using instruments in new ways is certainly not something Sandia is unaccustomed to, what the team did next no one had ever done, Talin said.

“The voltage between battery electrodes is relatively straightforward for researchers to calculate and measure,” Fuller said. “However, where that voltage drops within the battery layers has remained a mystery. It’s critical to understand where the voltage drops, as it is intimately tied to the performance-limiting resistances. Kelvin probe force microscopy is a technique that finally enabled us to measure where these drops are occurring.”

“This technique has been used for many years to measure local voltage, with people using it on parts of a battery. It was difficult to interpret because it was not a full functioning battery,” Talin continued. “We cut the battery in half longitudinally, with the elements stacked like a layer cake. You can still charge it and discharge it, so we did this measurement over the entire battery.”

The team found that a large part of the electrical potential of the battery was getting lost at the boundary between the electrolyte and the anode (negative) terminal.

“Most people thought the biggest change was going to happen at the interface between the cathode (positive) and electrolyte,” he added. “Understanding the measurements took a lot of time. We wanted to validate the data by measuring where the lithium ions were at different states during charging.”

To accomplish this, the team worked with researchers at the National Institute of Standards and Technology Center for Neutron Research using a technique called neutron depth profiling that can measure where lithium ions are at a particular moment. Now that NDP has confirmed the Kelvin probe force microscopy data, the team is looking to apply this methodology to a host of technologies that will benefit the nation.

“We’re going to use this technique to look at other batteries as well as other solid-state electrical systems, like the electrochemical random access memory invented at Sandia,” Talin said. “This will allow us to develop devices that operate like we would like them to operate.”

The work was done in collaboration with NIST, Naval Research Labs, University of Maryland College Park and Brown University. It was sponsored through Sandia’s Laboratory Directed Research and Development Lithium Battery Grand Challenge and the Nanostructures for Electrical Energy Storage Energy Frontiers Research Center as well as the Platforms core program, both led by the University of Maryland and sponsored by the DOE Office of Basic Energy Sciences.
________________________________________
Sandia National Laboratories is a multimission laboratory operated by National Technology and Engineering Solutions of Sandia LLC, a wholly owned subsidiary of Honeywell International Inc., for the U.S. Department of Energy’s National Nuclear Security Administration. Sandia Labs has major research and development responsibilities in nuclear deterrence, global security, defense, energy technologies and economic competitiveness, with main facilities in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and Livermore, California.

Wondering how we are going to charge these 100,000,000 electric vehicles. California is on rolling brown outs today, no heat wave or anything. Just not enough power for the grid. Maybe run a cord from a solar collector near the sun???

[Kountry_star]

Originally Posted by HenryH001

I use the transporter from the Starship Enterprise to get beamed wherever I go. It’s a lot more expensive however it’s much faster.

Maybe that's what we can do to charge all these electric cars by 2030, our power grid sure won't handle it. We can run a big extension cord from the enterprise. That thing should to create a bunch of power???

[vincee]

I went from a gas class A to a DP and love the difference in power. The biggest thing for me one vs. the other is with the DP I now set the cruise as soon as possible and just steer and enjoy the ride. With my gas rig, I never used cruise because of the constant RPM spiking on even the smallest of inclines (no not hills!). Yes, oil changes (yearly, same as the gas rig) cost 4 X's more with fuel filter changes but so far I'll put up with that.

This is not to say I wouldn't go back to a nice gasser. I have heard good reviews of Ford's new big V8 with a 6-speed tranny. I thought the V10 was an incredible engine that never received the respect it deserved from the RV community.

And to the post regarding towing a 5300 # F150, I believe many gas rigs today have a6000# towing weight limit now so the PU should work out fine.

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted by helopilot880

Been following the thread, we plan to buy a Class A. To me, the main question is the difference in towing ability between gas and diesel. I plan to tow my F-150 which weighs in at about 5300 pounds. Due to the lighter frames on a gas MH, none seem capable to towing the F-150 and stay under the MH weight limits. I would rather have gas, due mainly cost and better floor plans, but due to towing ability looks like diesel is the best option. All the of discussions so far are centered on cost but do not really address the real issue for most, towing ability between the two options. I know some would say get another vehicle, but to do so would add to the cost of a gasser to point to where diesel make more sense, plus I got the F150 for its other attributes not found in a smaller/lighter vehicle.

Pretty sure the new F53 will tow that truck easily.

[Flyer15015]

Originally Posted by helopilot880

Been following the thread, we plan to buy a Class A. To me, the main question is the difference in towing ability between gas and diesel. I plan to tow my F-150 which weighs in at about 5300 pounds. Due to the lighter frames on a gas MH, none seem capable to towing the F-150 and stay under the MH weight limits. I would rather have gas, due mainly cost and better floor plans, but due to towing ability looks like diesel is the best option. All the of discussions so far are centered on cost but do not really address the real issue for most, towing ability between the two options. I know some would say get another vehicle, but to do so would add to the cost of a gasser to point to where diesel make more sense, plus I got the F150 for its other attributes not found in a smaller/lighter vehicle.

Here is what I did to tow a 24ft car hauler (8K#) with my gasser.
2 x 2 x 1/4" angle with grade 8 bolts.
Pict #1 is the OEM set up. Not so good.
Pict #2 is my fix.

Mike in Colorado