Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > iRV2.com COMMUNITY FORUMS > iRV2.com General Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-25-2018, 01:46 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 19
Window sealant for between glass panes?

We have 4 tip-out windows in our Adventurer. Had one replaced in Hudson FL last year. (Very happy with the job.) Just noticed another one has fogged - guess we'll be going back there this winter. I've looked at the other two, the glass is still clear, but the seals are in really bad shape. (See attached pics - sorry they're sideways.)

Need suggestions on what to use to help protect the two that are still holding enough to keep the windows clear. Run a small bead of "What?" to maybe prevent these from failing? Something that won't prevent us from opening the tip-out.

Thanks!
Cathy
~David's researcher and navigator---since the damn RV was my idea
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4048.jpg
Views:	109
Size:	95.1 KB
ID:	208451   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4050.jpg
Views:	150
Size:	73.8 KB
ID:	208452  

__________________
David & Cathy
Winnebago 2008 W24 Adventurer 37B ~ Wisconsin
DavidJK is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 06-25-2018, 02:10 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Carlos, Texas
Posts: 1,746
I doubt that it will work but clear silicone. Once the seal is breached there is no fixing it as there isn't air inside. It's some other gas.
charliez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2018, 03:24 PM   #3
Member
 
jrupinsk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Villas, New Jersey, Titusville, FL
Posts: 47
Look for "neutral cure silicone" and reseal. Many off the shelf silicone sealants are "acetic cure' which gives the vinegar smell, but will damage the spacer.
If the desiccant is not saturated it will work for a while.
__________________
Jan & Liz
2017 FW Pace Arrow 33D
Cape May, NJ and Titusville, FL [TGO]
jrupinsk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2018, 03:25 PM   #4
Senior Member/RVM #90
 
MSHappyCampers's Avatar


 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Columbus, MS
Posts: 54,622
Hi ! Welcome to IRV2! We're sure glad you joined the gang!

I have my doubts that there is anything you can do to prevent the fogging between the panes.


Good luck, happy trails, and God bless!
__________________
Joe & Annette
Sometimes I sits and thinks, sometimes I just sits.....
2002 Monaco Windsor 40PBT, 2013 Honda CRV AWD
MSHappyCampers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2018, 04:40 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
banjopickin1's Avatar
 
Fleetwood Owners Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 105
Try this

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000L00N8S...I2DXH738L3ZK81
__________________
2004 Fleetwood Expedition 37U
Cummins ISB
2010 Toyota RAV4
banjopickin1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2018, 05:05 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Katy, TX
Posts: 841
The space between double-pain windows is typically filled with Argon gas. Once the seal dries out and cracks, the Argon gas escapes and the gap between the two pieces of glass is open to ambient air which causes the fogging. Once this happens, the glass panes are separated, cleaned, re-assembled and re-filled with Argon. Applying a sealant now to old, cracked seals will offer no benefit. The only solution is to reseal or replace your window.


Your and my motorhomes are at the age that sealants dry-out, crack and fail. I had the driver-side window next to my captain chair removed, cleaned and re-sealed a year ago. This past week the same thing had to be done to the entry door window. Good news is those windows are now "good" for another 8-10 years.
__________________
Mike & Cindy in Katy, TX
2016 Newmar Ventana LE 4037
2016 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara
fagnaml is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2018, 07:15 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
tmw188's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
National RV Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: St. Charles MO
Posts: 4,920
Send a message via AIM to tmw188
Don’t count on 8-10 yrs if the have been repaired I don’t think anyone has the ability to fill with argon?
__________________
2002 Monaco Windsor 40PST 2019 Equinox 1.5L, Blue OX Aventa LX tow bar, Roadmaster EZ5 baseplate, SMI Stay-In-Play Duo, TireSafeGuard TPMS
tmw188 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2018, 09:52 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,772
I have had several windows repaired for fogging. They have all failed again within a couple of years[emoji30]
__________________
Terry & Alice
2006 Bounder 38L DP
2012 GMC Terrain
firedoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2018, 09:40 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
dc8cappie's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Posts: 405
Don’t remember under what heading it was, but there was one on doing fogged windows. The post had the name of the spacer and I think a provider. Try search fogged windows.
__________________
Earl
05 Meridian, 39K, 350 CAT. '13 F-150 4X4, Blue Ox Aventa LX, Roadmaster 9160, 2018 Honda GL1800 Goldwing Tour, USAF Retired.
dc8cappie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2018, 11:47 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Metamora, MI
Posts: 5,518
Since the window is already "dead", as an experiment, what if the panes were separated (right angle wire wheel?), cleaned (wet razor blade, then, windex) and then sealed most all the way around (clear or black silicon). If there is a space between the two, make some shims out of plastic of the right dimensions and just glue them in on the edges. Wait for the silicone to dry. Then, find someone with a MIG welder and ask to use some argon gas. Put the argon in the remaining silicone "hole", and gently blow some in and let the ambient air escape (maybe one "in" hole, and one "out" on the other side edge?). Then, finish putting the silicone around the hole to plug.

Argon is really cheap gas. Very abundant.
__________________
2002 Newmar Mountain Aire Limited 4370 w/ Spartan K2 and Cummins 500hp
ASE Master Certified (a long.....time ago...)
Dav L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2018, 12:07 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
astrnmrtom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Pacific Northwest and Arizona
Posts: 2,043
I'm not aware of any RV double pane windows that contain anything other than air. Argon is used in household and commercial double panes but I'd be surprised if RV manufacturers use it.

The posting above that shows C.R. Laurence Super Spacer sealer is the stuff to get because that's what the pros use and it IS window sealer. I highly recommend you not use silicone if there's any chance the windows will be re-sealed in the future. Silicone can interfere with the bonding of the future sealer. Also silicone needs a very clean surface for a good bond.

One problem you will run into is being able to get enough sealer in the existing gap to do much good. If you fill the gap to the edge with sealer on a sliding window it'll be a bear to get open and closed.

You can rebuild the windows yourself if you are handy. It's tedious but not difficult. I wouldn't use a wire wheel on tempered glass. You wet the edge and slice the panes apart with a razor knife using multiple cuts. Then you need to clean all the old sealer off the glass by scraping WET with a single edge razor blade. C.R. Laurence makes a replacement foam spacer material with built in dessicant and it too is available on Amazon. You just need to know the width of your existing spacer material. It has adhesive sides and you apply it back about 3/8" from the edge of the glass and then backfill with the sealer caulk. These new foam spacers can handle movement better than the old aluminum ones.

Here' my previous posting on the subject: http://www.irv2.com/forums/f115/repl...-355003-2.html

Here's a page showing all three items you'd need for rebuilding RV windows - spacer, sealer and applicator block (down the page). https://www.amazon.com/Black-Wide-Ed...L+super+spacer

Hope this helps.
__________________
Tom and Pris M. along with Buddy the 18 year old Siamese cat
1998 Safari Serengeti 3706, 300HP Cat 3126 Allison 3060, 900 watts of Solar.
Dragging four telescopes around the US in search of dark skies.
astrnmrtom is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2018, 05:18 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Brighton, MI
Posts: 775
We have an awning, tilt out, window on one side of the bedroom and 2 smaller ones on each side of the bed. The seal failed on all but one of them. I repaired them using the EdgeTech SuperSpacer from C.R. Laurence several years ago. I also repaired a number of windows on our previous MH using SuperSpace. The awing windows are easy to do since you don't have to remove the whole window unit. If the sealant is dried out but the seal is not lost I would apply new sealant over the old. If it doesn't work you haven't lost much.
__________________
Hank & Lynda
2003 Winnebago Adventurer 35U, Workhorse W22
70ChevelleSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2018, 12:14 PM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 65
Post Whoa people, whoa !!!! Please give advice if only you know what you are talking about

In the trade, this double paned glass is known as a unit. Several trade names are used to identify the manufacture of them. If your unit has a metal spacer (that is the aluminum separator) between the lites (pieces) of glass, you should see the manufacturer's trade name, stamped somewhere on the inside edge of this 1/4" (usually) spacer bar. At the same time, if you look closely at the perimeter of the glass (usually about 1" in), you will see that there is a sandblasted or acid etched name of the GLASS manufacturer. That name tells you that the glass is tempered safety glass. If you look at your windshield, lower left or right corner, you will see a similar marking. This indicates who manufactured the windshield and that it is a laminated safety glass. Side glass and rear glass in your automobile has similar markings, but this glass is tempered safety glass. These lites of tempered glass, were originally annealed glass (regular glass), cut to required size and then tempered to create safety glass. Tempered glass can not be recut.

OK. now that you are somewhat educated on units and glass, we can now discuss the manufacture of units.
The first unit commercially manufactured was the Thermopane. It used a lead spacer that was fused to the inside of the glass edge. These were produced as far back as the 1940s. Believe it or not, some of these still exist today, performing as well as they did when first manufactured. Then came the Anderson Window, All Glass unit. It literally was one lite of glass that was heated and folded over and edges were rolled together to create a air and water seal. They actually tested these finished units, by floating them in water, to insure that the all glass unit was sealed. Although both of these types of units were better than any produced today,the cost of manufacturing each was prohibitive. So in the very late sixties to early seventies, they started manufacturing units by laying one lite of glass on a flat surface, then laying an assembled hollow rolled aluminum spacer bar, that usually had one length filled with a desiccant to absorb moisture when the second lite of glass was placed onto the spacer and then sealed with either a polysulphide or polyurethane sealant. The seam of the rolled spacer was centered, facing inside of the unit, to allow encapsulated air, containing moisture, to enter into the hollow of the spacer, allowing the desiccant to do it's job. Little tricks of the trade included air applied sealant with special applicator tools, cleaning the inside surface with a glass washer, stacking units of same size as high as two feet or so. Visualize glass, spacer, glass, glass, spacer, glass, glass, spacer glass etc., forming a stack of unsealed units. They would then apply the sealant using a trowel to squeeze the sealant onto the slightly set in spacer bar and onto the glass edges. This would be allowed to cure for several hours, perhaps over night or the modern manufacturers ran the stack through a slow moving oven to cure the "Block of Black Sealant" that was applied to all 4 sides of the unit. After cure, the individual units would be separated by means of a utility knive. The units would then be cleaned of excess sealant on usually just the top and bottom lites of glass, in the stack. At this point, Argon or other gas CAN be introduced. Most units are manufactured without gas as it The Argon or similar gas is used to increase the energy efficiency of the unit. Truth be known, this gas will only last up to 2 years, inside the unit as all sealants, including silicone, will allow the gas to permeate through the seal. Holes are drilled through the sealant in the opposite corners of the unit, one to allow the gas to be pumped in while the other is to allow the trapped air to escape. The corners are then resealed with the same sealant that the unit was previously sealed with. After a brief cure the Units are now ready for shipping or in house glazing, depending on nature of the manufacture ie: some window manufacturers also make their own units while some unit manufacturers, produce for all trades.

OK - Glass - Units now covered.

REPAIRING SEAL FAILURE UNITS -
Yes, I have done it. Was it a great job? No. It can be a good job, if you are willing to accept a less than perfect unit or maybe even a unit that no longer holds water or moisture. It will never be perfect. You might achieve on a performance scale of 1-10, maybe a 5 or 6. On a perfectly clear vision, you might achieve a 5.
So you just removed the old unit from the frame - cutting the glazing sealant or removing the rubber gasket from around the unit. You may have noticed small pieces of vinyl or rubber under the bottom edge of the unit at 1/4 points (these are called setting blocks or shims) and possibly additional pieces at 1/2 points on both sides (these are called side shims). They are placed there to prevent the unit from moving side to side, against the metal frame. The bottom setting blocks are used to raise the unit up off the metal frame to allow any water that may flow down the glass face, settling under the unit, to drain away. They are also used to cushion the unit in the frame.
If the unit is set into a rubber gasket, the use of shims or setting blocks is not required.
OK, you now have the old unit in hand and it is looking pretty grungy, filled with moisture and it is quite stained. Lay the unit on a flat surface, covered by rug or towel. Using a utility knife, carefully cut the sealant, separating both lites of glass from the aluminum spacer bar. Trim off as much of the black sealant as possible from the exposed edges of the spacer bar, being careful not to bend it. You might be able to still hear the desiccant in the hollow spacer bar by shaking it. This desiccant is dead ! It did it's job as long as it could but was unable to absorb any more moisture that had permeated the sealant. Result? Seal Failure. You may be able to empty the expired desiccant from the spacer bar by gently opening the seam and replacing the desiccant (if you have a friendly unit manufacturer in your are who will give you a bit. Keep it in an air tight container until you are ready to use it.
Now, you have the two tempered pieces of glass in hand and are ready to clean them --- Windex??? NO ! It will leave a film on your glass, even though you make think it hasn't. No matter what you use to try and clean it, you're glass is permanently water stained and will never be like new.
As the original unit was manufactured probably 10 years or more ago, we can assume your RV is also that old and probably is starting to show it's age.
You can try cleaning the glass with vinegar and water, using a good deal of elbow grease. You might be content with how your glass looks after cleaning and you say "Good Enough". So be it. You can try using rubbing alcohol to assist in removing the stains as well. Although it is not recommended, I have used 'Easy Off Oven Cleaner' to remove real stubborn stains. It usually works, but excessive use of this caustic product will eventually pit your glass, if used repeatedly. I have used it to remove the black stains on glass that have been left behind from screens on windows and patio doors. I repeat -- do not use this product as a normal cleaner or use it excessively. No water which method you attempt to clean your glass, rinse well with plain water and then do it again and lastly, do it again !!! Get the cleaner off the surfaces !!! Allow glass to dry completely before starting the reassemble.

The most readily available sealant is silicone. If you are able to buy a neutral cure silicone, (Non acetic), the better for your seal. If you are able to purchase a gunnable urethane, that will also work. I have used acetic silicone for this application, but feel the neutral cure silicone is superior for the longevity of the unit. Lay the first lite of glass on your rug, place the spacer bar on top of this glass and then add your second lite of glass on top of the spacer bar. Square your unit to insure glass is positioned the same, top and bottom lites. The spacer should be evenly set in place equally spaced all around. If you have rubber tipped clamps, they should be used to hold the two lites of glass and spacer together. If you don't have clamps, have someone hold the top glass down, to insure that it does not move when you are applying the sealant. Sealant can now be evenly applied to the spacer and glass edge. Insure that the sealant FULLY covers the spacer bar to a depth of 1/8" +. A thin popsicle stick can be used to trowel your sealant to an even thickness. The void between the spacer and the glass edge need not necessarily to completely filled with sealant as long as sealant is extended beyond the spacer, on the the glass. If you want to fill the void, go ahead, 'knock yourself out', it will not harm the unit, it will just take longer for the sealant to cure. A full 100% cure usually takes up to 7 days, however, your unit should be able to be moved and excess sealant cleaned off your finished product and will be usable to be replaced in your frame.
You are now a glass and sealant expert and your unit should perform as intended for several years, if you have followed all of the above.

You are now finished --- and so am I.

Sorry to go into so much detail but I just had to address the advice of "Well Meaning" Helpers.

As an added note: I have been in the glass and sealant business for over 50 years.
Murphcrud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2018, 12:32 PM   #14
Member
 
jrupinsk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Villas, New Jersey, Titusville, FL
Posts: 47
Murph, what a concise explanation! I have been in the industry all my life and it is tough at times to get the correct info out there. I do recall the first glass edge units being produced by Pittsburgh Plate Glass under the trade name "Twindow" Thank you!
__________________
Jan & Liz
2017 FW Pace Arrow 33D
Cape May, NJ and Titusville, FL [TGO]
jrupinsk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
sealant, seal, window



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Condensation between glass on bedroom window throbbin367 Winnebago Industries Owner's Forum 1 04-18-2016 07:10 PM
Dual panes and ducted A/C.....when? youracman Country Coach Owners Forum 5 09-26-2013 09:58 AM
Dual pane window sweating inbetween panes wagonmaster2 iRV2.com General Discussion 10 06-11-2013 07:38 AM
Window Seal Coming Loose Between Glass Panes Sandcassle MH-General Discussions & Problems 5 12-12-2010 05:22 PM
Two glass panes fog within days Retiredfields Alpine Coach Owner's Forum 5 08-17-2009 09:54 AM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.