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Old 12-06-2020, 03:28 PM   #15
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I guess what I was trying to say is that.....just about every business/corporation is LOADED with debt. They are really "too big to fail".....until they do. It is a house of cards based on promises/contracts which cannot be fulfilled. Servicing this debt is based on... more borrowing. Big banks and financial houses make $$ by trading...$$. And the beat goes on......
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Old 12-06-2020, 04:09 PM   #16
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I am about three+ years away from retirement. I already have moved the first several years of retirement funds out of equities so I can leave the rest of the funds invested until we bump into required minimum distributions when we turn 72.

I plan to keep moving funds out multiple years ahead of need so we can choose when it is time to sell equities.

I watched the market dive multiple times over the years. I have never sold when the market was down.
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Old 12-06-2020, 10:16 PM   #17
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Astrocamper, consider this==when you retire roll your 401k/403b or whatever plan you have into an IRA, then immediately roll it over into Roth IRA. You will have to pay the taxes on the amount you transfer from the IRA to the Roth, but from that point on your money is growing tax free.

Talk with a retirement specialist about this to see if it makes sense in your situation.

I did that when I retired and for the past 10 years I've been getting tax free growth in my Roth. If it's something a retirement specialist suggests could work for you, consider opening your Roth IRA now. The reason for this is if the Roth is open less than 5 years and you start taking money out you pay tax on that money. Anyone can open a Roth IRA unless they are making too much money or they aren't working at all because Roth contributions must come from earned income.
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Old 12-08-2020, 04:56 AM   #18
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Lost some in April but have made it all back and then some - but not enough for a new Prevost, not that we were looking or even thinking about upgrading our 6 year old Montana, but nice to dream. [Mod Edit] Time will tell.
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Old 12-08-2020, 06:29 AM   #19
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Lost some in April but have made it all back and then some - but not enough for a new Prevost, not that we were looking or even thinking about upgrading our 6 year old Montana, but nice to dream. [Mod Edit] Time will tell.
[Mod Edit]

Will be interesting to see. I would like to see continued growth of the market. Two more good years and I just might be able to get the small diesel pusher I would like
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Old 12-08-2020, 07:07 AM   #20
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Please keep all discussions on topic and free of politics.

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Old 12-08-2020, 08:02 AM   #21
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In college I majored in Macro Economics and Business. I wanted to know why the economy kept going into a roller coaster cycle with major ups and downs.

When we got married in 73 it was right about the time the fuel shortage hit and gas lines became the norm. Antifreeze was being sold for $10 a gallon but the kicker was an TV announcement of shortages of white bread and toilet paper. People flocked to buy gallons to antifreeze, stocked freezers with white bread, and well, you know.

It became evident, after witnessing it firsthand, that the difference between the two political parties was payoffs. One will help your business prosper with favorable regulations and legislation but it has to be profitable enough to make money in the short term less a new administration changes the rules. The other will propose regulations and legislation that would adversely affect some industry or individual who would then lobby (think payoffs) to have the proposed laws modified.

It becomes hard to plan ahead enough to beat the system so my recommendation is to not be too exposed to the changes. Save your cash, no debt, and low cost of living.
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Old 12-08-2020, 08:40 AM   #22
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In college I majored in Macro Economics and Business. I wanted to know why the economy kept going into a roller coaster cycle with major ups and downs.

When we got married in 73 it was right about the time the fuel shortage hit and gas lines became the norm. Antifreeze was being sold for $10 a gallon but the kicker was an TV announcement of shortages of white bread and toilet paper. People flocked to buy gallons to antifreeze, stocked freezers with white bread, and well, you know.

It became evident, after witnessing it firsthand, that the difference between the two political parties was payoffs. One will help your business prosper with favorable regulations and legislation but it has to be profitable enough to make money in the short term less a new administration changes the rules. The other will propose regulations and legislation that would adversely affect some industry or individual who would then lobby (think payoffs) to have the proposed laws modified.

It becomes hard to plan ahead enough to beat the system so my recommendation is to not be too exposed to the changes. Save your cash, no debt, and low cost of living.

My wife and I have no debt, and are saving hard for an early retirement. And I'm terrified. I'm sitting on a big chunk of cash waiting for the market to reflect reality, and it's cost me a bunch of money in the short term. I think the market is so high specifically because they've devalued the dollar to nothing. So, me paying off all debt and sitting on cash is a terrible plan when the cash falls in value every day. The current setup is really abusing the savers.
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Old 12-09-2020, 11:56 AM   #23
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Hi DirtRider. Not to worry. Take a crash course in..... on-line, 24x7, currency trading. Play with the big boys and you will be OK.
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Old 12-09-2020, 12:19 PM   #24
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The day trading biz has already taken a bunch of newly at-home investors to the cleaners. One person I'm acquainted with made a bunch of money early on, then lost all of that and most of his savings while trying to recoup. Chasing small changes in value is, for the most part, a fool's errand.

"The market" in general is an interesting thing that appears to be divorced from reality. Roughly 12% of the workforce is unemployed or significantly under-employed. Obviously the profits perceived by stock buyers must come from a magical place because they aren't coming from unemployed people, sick people, or dead people.

The irony for me: my equity investments will mean I have a good sized capital gains tax to pay next year, while I never see, touch, or smell the money - and I'll have to borrow to pay those taxes because I'm also paying income tax on my unemployment benefits (because my state didn't withhold taxes after filling out the forms and submitting them to the state). Together, they will mean I have to pay back most of my ACA subsidy, too, and with no income on the horizon, I'll have to file quarterly returns for 2021 even though I have no job.

I'm in that awkward position - too much capital gain and just enough earned income to make me cash-negative. If I had double the money in my investments (and I was working hard on that for the last 8 or 9 years), I could maybe retire. As it is, growth in my investments pays the taxes and management fees and little more... and leaves me worse off, in 2020, than I would be if it were all earned income or all capital gains. The combination is killing me and I have no idea if I can afford my health insurance next year.
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Old 12-09-2020, 05:02 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by SteveNSue View Post
In college I majored in Macro Economics and Business. I wanted to know why the economy kept going into a roller coaster cycle with major ups and downs.

When we got married in 73 it was right about the time the fuel shortage hit and gas lines became the norm. Antifreeze was being sold for $10 a gallon but the kicker was an TV announcement of shortages of white bread and toilet paper. People flocked to buy gallons to antifreeze, stocked freezers with white bread, and well, you know.

It became evident, after witnessing it firsthand, that the difference between the two political parties was payoffs. One will help your business prosper with favorable regulations and legislation but it has to be profitable enough to make money in the short term less a new administration changes the rules. The other will propose regulations and legislation that would adversely affect some industry or individual who would then lobby (think payoffs) to have the proposed laws modified.

It becomes hard to plan ahead enough to beat the system so my recommendation is to not be too exposed to the changes. Save your cash, no debt, and low cost of living.


That’s the plan! Been retired eight years, took everything out of the market except for some “play” money. Debt free, got my Monaco pusher and toad(s) so I milk market money for profits, each year, pay the tax, do my maintenance on the coach and travel. After eight years I have taken more than I left in the market and original amount continues growing . SURELY THIS WILL EXPLODE SOON, what a time bomb!
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