For those who worship at the altar of Steve Jobs

[RickO]

Originally Posted by wnytaxman

If we are going to blast anyone for their overseas jobs then all of you Honda, Toyota, Kia, BMW, etc. drivers need to stop driving those job destroying vehicles and stop buying Nikes and Reebok while you are at it also. Everything that is made overseas will be made in worse working conditions than we would allow and with practically no environmental controls.

I've toured the Mercedes plant in Stuttgart and it didn't strike me as a sweat shop. Generally speaking I found working conditions in France, Germany, Switzerland and the UK to be maybe a cut above what is found in the U.S..

Rick

[hondo122]

Originally Posted by RickO

I've toured the Mercedes plant in Stuttgart and it didn't strike me as a sweat shop. Generally speaking I found working conditions in France, Germany, Switzerland and the UK to be maybe a cut above what is found in the U.S..

Rick

All Unionized too

[wildtoad]

I suspect if you tour the BMW plant in Spartanburg, the Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Mercedez plants here in the non union, right to work states who are providing thousands of good paying jobs to US citizens you will find very good working conditions, happy employees with fair wages. All of which are producing high quality cars. Unions don't make the products better, just cost more.

You want to buy an American made car? Want to support American workers so they can feed their families, send the kids to college? Well you choose... Buy a BMW made in SC, Mercedez made in Mississippi or a Ford made in Mexico from parts made in who-knows-where.

We live in a global economy, and what used to be an American product isn't. Heck even my Titleist irons are half Chinese.

[hondo122]

Originally Posted by wildtoad

I suspect if you tour the BMW plant in Spartanburg, the Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Mercedez plants here in the non union, right to work states who are providing thousands of good paying jobs to US citizens you will find very good working conditions, happy employees with fair wages. All of which are producing high quality cars. Unions don't make the products better, just cost more.

You want to buy an American made car? Want to support American workers so they can feed their families, send the kids to college? Well you choose... Buy a BMW made in SC, Mercedez made in Mississippi or a Ford made in Mexico from parts made in who-knows-where.

We live in a global economy, and what used to be an American product isn't. Heck even my Titleist irons are half Chinese.

I would take umbrage with the comment they don't make things better, again I'm from a construction background, not manufacturing but the carpenters that serve an apprenticeship and follow up with journeyman training which is available to all members at no cost, are the best trained workers out there, most of the manufacturers of construction materials certify union members to do the installation of their products. This training is unavailable to non union carpenters SO YES THEY MAKE BETTER PRODUCTS. This is a fact not opinion.

[LokiGT]

Originally Posted by hondo122

I would take umbrage with the comment they don't make things better, again I'm from a construction background, not manufacturing but the carpenters that serve an apprenticeship and follow up with journeyman training which is available to all members at no cost, are the best trained workers out there, most of the manufacturers of construction materials certify union members to do the installation of their products. This training is unavailable to non union carpenters SO YES THEY MAKE BETTER PRODUCTS. This is a fact not opinion.

Not in Chicago they don't.

[hondo122]

Originally Posted by EndeavorV10

Not in Chicago they don't.

Eric what facts do you have to support your statement? What are you basing it on?

[Automobilist]

Don't know much about the whole Apple deal except that my iPods say "Made in China" in tiny print. I know a little bit about Walmart practices. We consciously avoid shopping at Walmart.

We own two companies. One is a manufacturing / distribution / sales business, the other a distribution / sales company. Two different industries, not related. With a couple minor parts exceptions, everything we sell is Made In America. I mean all materials, parts, etc. are at least 90+% domestic content. We have been approached several times to have our products made in China, Vietnam, Mexico, etc. We would make more money if we did, but I won't do it, and my board agrees 100%. To us, that would be betraying our fellow Americans. I know that sounds corny, but too bad, we're selling American made products. And we're profitable.

Our suppliers know where we stand, and are on board. I think there are a growing number of business people fed up with the offshore & Walmart mentality. We make high quality American products. We sell other company's quality American-made products.

Every one of us has the choice. Support American industry, or send our jobs elsewhere. No excuses.

[hondo122]

Originally Posted by Automobilist

Don't know much about the whole Apple deal except that my iPods say "Made in China" in tiny print. I know a little bit about Walmart practices. We consciously avoid shopping at Walmart.

We own two companies. One is a manufacturing / distribution / sales business, the other a distribution / sales company. Two different industries, not related. With a couple minor parts exceptions, everything we sell is Made In America. I mean all materials, parts, etc. are at least 90+% domestic content. We have been approached several times to have our products made in China, Vietnam, Mexico, etc. We would make more money if we did, but I won't do it, and my board agrees 100%. To us, that would be betraying our fellow Americans. I know that sounds corny, but too bad, we're selling American made products. And we're profitable.

Our suppliers know where we stand, and are on board. I think there are a growing number of business people fed up with the offshore & Walmart mentality. We make high quality American products. We sell other company's quality American-made products.

Every one of us has the choice. Support American industry, or send our jobs elsewhere. No excuses.

A tip of my hat to you and yours, what we need is more moral employers that believe as you do

[gray ghost]

Originally Posted by hondo122

... are the best trained workers out there, most of the manufacturers of construction materials certify union members to do the installation of their products. This training is unavailable to non union carpenters SO YES THEY MAKE BETTER PRODUCTS.

In my experience, and I spent most of my 30+ years in the military in the training of soldiers, superior training does not always equal superior performance. I would agree with you that there are some excellent craftsmen in the union ranks (as determined by the product they produce). But there are also some duds (as determined by the product they produce). It is a matter of the individual's character that determines how well they utilize their skills. The same holds true for non-union craftsmen. Some are excellent, some are not.

[hondo122]

Originally Posted by gray ghost

In my experience, and I spent most of my 30+ years in the military in the training of soldiers, superior training does not always equal superior performance. I would agree with you that there are some excellent craftsmen in the union ranks (as determined by the product they produce). But there are also some duds (as determined by the product they produce). It is a matter of the individual's character that determines how well they utilize their skills. The same holds true for non-union craftsmen. Some are excellent, some are not.

Cliff, there are duds everywhere but without go training the odds go, thanks for your service

[Billieg]

Originally Posted by Automobilist

Don't know much about the whole Apple deal except that my iPods say "Made in China" in tiny print. I know a little bit about Walmart practices. We consciously avoid shopping at Walmart.

We own two companies. One is a manufacturing / distribution / sales business, the other a distribution / sales company. Two different industries, not related. With a couple minor parts exceptions, everything we sell is Made In America. I mean all materials, parts, etc. are at least 90+% domestic content. We have been approached several times to have our products made in China, Vietnam, Mexico, etc. We would make more money if we did, but I won't do it, and my board agrees 100%. To us, that would be betraying our fellow Americans. I know that sounds corny, but too bad, we're selling American made products. And we're profitable.

Our suppliers know where we stand, and are on board. I think there are a growing number of business people fed up with the offshore & Walmart mentality. We make high quality American products. We sell other company's quality American-made products.

Every one of us has the choice. Support American industry, or send our jobs elsewhere. No excuses.

I applaud you! good going and keep it up. What companies do you own?

[Automobilist]

We own:

Pacific Environmental Inc. http://www.pacificenviro.com
Advanced Fuel Systems http://www.afsfuel.com
Quality Fuel Trailer and Tank Inc. http://www.qualityfueltrailers.com

I know, that's three companies, but the two fuel tank businesses are functionally the same.

[henderson]

I was killing time looking through old threads and came across this one, it appears very topical as there have been protests around the world on working conditions at some of Apples subcontractor facilities. Now Apple is hiring a firm to monitor the subcontractors. The firm has had some bad press from some of their other monitoring jobs. So I guess we wait and see what happens.