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Kiwi · 10-19-2006, 12:26 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jfb:
New.Orleans is probably a good example of our government(s)trying to maintain a major population/economic center (city)in the wrong place ..... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

OUCH!!!!
There is nothing "wrong place" about New Orleans, except what the Federal Government created.

Lets look as some facts:
1) Check your historical geography, at one time everything south of about Pittsburg was water.
2) New Orleans was not originally below sea level. As stated by MammaLoya and others this delta was created and sustained by annual broad and shallow floods that continually built up the land. The floods were caused by melting snow from up North.
3)American interests wanted a deep water port at the end of the Mississippi river and the Feds came in and sold a bill of goods to the locals.... They promised to put up levees to stop the flooding. What they wanted was to chanel the Mississippi river to create a deep water port to sell grain from Indiana and Ohio.
4)These levees stopped the annual rebuilding of land that is highly organic and naturally settles. This caused subsidence or lowering of the land.
5) The problem is that the Corp did not live up to its committment and keep adding soil to the levees as they sank along with the land. They also built poorly engineered wall type levees that failed their first test.
6) Would we have been better off without intervention... that is not for me to say. But we would not be below sea level as we are now.
Walt

Jestme13 · 10-19-2006, 04:19 PM

I've been to Nawlins several times, I have good friends that retired from high up city government. After listening to them and experiencing the COMMUNITY it's a real shame the whole place didn't wash away. What a cess pool. In regards to the current regiem in Office, and the illustrious Mayor Nagon, he should have been jailed for his incompitence, neglect and verbel conduct after the storm. He failed in all of his duties. So, as far as I'm concerned, him and the whole chocolate city can float out to sea.

Don (W5IT) · 10-19-2006, 05:29 PM

Well I have sat back to see just where the thread would go... The program I linked was about how the ENTIRE coast of LA was "Washing Away". It was NOT about New Orleans.

It went into detail as to how each Hurricane and the corralling of the Mississippi River behind levees affected the coast.

It was not political, just factual.

So the point I am getting around to is that the thread has evolved into a discussion that is not about the erosion problem. More into a discussion about New Orleans.

Let's please get back on track and leave opinions about New Orleans and the politicians out of the discussion.

Thanks Yall,

DriVer · 10-19-2006, 06:01 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Don (W5IT):
Let's please get back on track and leave opinions about New Orleans and the politicians out of the discussion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Don, For most of us disengaged folks from out of state it is very difficult to discuss water and land issues without thinking about New Orleans.

You are absolutely correct though and please, politics and the government were never meant to enter into this conversation. It's about the Mississippi Delta and the encroachment of the sea and the disappearance of habitat for wildlife and an entire way of life disappearing in the delta.

All of that is a much more important issue than if "NO" sunk beneath the waves. Once the delta disappears it'll no doubt take more years than a few lifetimes to restore it and then ONLY if man stops using the river.

Kiwi · 10-20-2006, 03:40 AM

Sorry Driver and Don...
I should not have defended New Orleans right to exist. The loss of coastal land is a real problem and this thread was calling attention to that.

Now, what I need explaing is the logic behind building a state on a major earthquake fault line (California). Or, what about the logic in putting two beautiful National Parks and a state in a Volcanic caldera (YellowStone and Grand Tetons - Wyoming). Then there is that bunch in the South Pacific that landed on an active volcano and were dumb enough to think it was an island. Even turned it into a state.

BTW.... I hear of more flooding in North East today..

Walt

Jestme13 · 10-20-2006, 08:13 AM

Some of those friends i mentioned lived down in Empire LA, Slidell, and surrounding areas. I was introduced to swampers and the cajun culture. They have nothing to do with N.O. But everything related to the environmental issues in LA has to do with the bolstering of N.O. Deepening channels so chemical plants and refineries can continue to thrive and pollute. This smells of big business and the political lackies that support them. It is ultimatly the fault of our ellected officials when these plans go south on use. They are responsable for all the impact studies regarding the environment and the people in these areas. PS. damming the ole Miss wasn't such a good idea, was it? Now they want to restore the everglades in Fla by reflooding areas that were drained. I guess the cure for the LA coastline will cause N.O to be submerged and let nature try to cure herself. Besides , other then the Parties, what does N.O. have to offer other then having one of the highest corruption levels in the country. Trust me, those leves weren't built for the benifit of the people! IMHO

Kiwi, how does your 350hp Cat run ? what is your mileage. I just bought one.

Kiwi · 10-20-2006, 09:16 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Besides, other then the Parties, what does N.O. have to offer </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You may not agree, but New Orleans is much more than just parties. It has a rich history and culture that has influenced the entire United States.

The city is coming back stronger and better than ever before. We are now number three in film production in the nation. Yesterday a new company broke ground on a new 30,000 square foot film production facility that will cost almost 200 million and employ up to 1000 people.

We have been making the tanks on the Space Shuttle, and Lockeed got the contract for the next generation of space craft. Booster rockets for that will be built here.

The bad news here is that we are close to the water, the good news is that we are close to the water. Those tanks and boosters can only be moved by barge. They won't go down the Interstate.

My 350 Cat is great. My mileage varies depending on the weight of my foot. I can take it easy in the low 60's and get almost 10 pulling my toad on level ground. But, if I drop the hammer, my mileage barely reaches 8.

There is peril living in other parts of the country. If they need help, I want to help them.

Even though the Governor has not come up for reelection and Mayor Nagan got reelected. The city council is 90% new. Our pre-Katrina school system is gone. We now are implenting one of the best designed Charter school systems in the country. One of them is here on the university campus I work on.

AND... How 'bout dem Saints! Sorry Eagles fans..

Walt

marypal · 10-21-2006, 07:01 AM

"You may not agree, but New Orleans is much more than just parties. It has a rich history and culture that has influenced the entire United States."

*****Nicely stated, Walt and Sherri !! *****
I'm sitting here looking at pictures of our New Orleans family home that was demolished this week, because it was beyond repair.

'marypal'
Mary Palmer
San Antonio, Tx
but born and raised in 'Nawlins

mamaloya · 10-23-2006, 04:41 AM

Walt and Mary, nice to see some locals on here. We are from NO as well. I was born in Lakeside Hospital as was my sister, brother, and 3 of my kids. I grew up in Destrehan, lived in River Ridge, Covington, and New Orleans proper. The last couple of years I lived in LA, we lived in Venice, LA. My dh was pastor of the baptist church down there. We lost everything in Katrina and are now in NC. My mom and sister are still there. My mom is glad that she finally has a kitchen sink. LOL My sister is still waiting on a new roof.

As for the coastal probs, sorry, but you cannot take the corrupt politicians out of it. If you ask me, they are just like the people who immediatley after Katrina were looting stores for TVs and computers. They cannot look past the present and their desire to line their pockets and see the future and the needs of the people. All they see is that if they do such and such now, THEY will receive an immediate plus. They are also able to convince the people that this will benefit them. They fail to see how their decisions will be detrimental to the future, and if they do, they don't care. Fishermen down there are quite aware of the problems, but they are told that "this will fix it", only to find out it made it worse.

Before the levees reached all the way to souther Plaquemines Parish (the county at the mouth of the river and about 1.5 hours up it) people lived in raised houses and the fishermen thrived. When the levees went in, people put their houses back on the ground. The school down there was raised and it received no damage. The houses that were raised received minor damage and no flooding. The trailers around our house were demolished. Our house stood but was almost fully submerged. Our church was fully submerged. That area was wiped out once before in Camille and they rebuilt with inferior materials, only to be wiped out again. After Camille, almost half the population left never to return, I am not sure how many will return this time. So far only 2 families from our church plan on returning. The rest are resettling elsewhere.

After Camille an entire town was submerged and destroyed never to be seen again. The people moved to Venice, which is now the last town withing the levee. There is one further down, at least there was, but it flooded quite regularly.

OK, I have totally forgotten where I was going with this. Only thing is that you cannot talk about coastal erosion w/o bringing in politics. W/o politicians, the problem would not exist and it will only be fixed if they are taken out of the equation. Well, them and big business.

Jestme13 · 10-23-2006, 05:27 AM

Thanks for the Cat info KiWi.
I can understand everyones loyalty to their hometown. My thoughts were that ppl should not habitat just any ole place. For several hundred yrs ppl eeked out an existance along the lower Mississippi, and all was fine,UNTIL the government decided to mess with the natural way of things, with leves and canals and all. I feel so sorry for the ppl that lost so much.
I believe it will happen again if we don't learn our leason this time, and I don't want the politicians wasting my taxs on a foolish idea. As DriVer said "ya can't fool MOTHER NATURE"