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Old 03-29-2020, 06:00 PM   #1
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Need help from residential electrical gurus

Gang,
Here's my plan. And, this does have something to do with RV's, you'll see when I'm done explaining. I'm gonna get into some home *Powder coating". Powder coating is actually quite simple. You need a gun, an air supply and, an oven. Well, based on the actual reviews, I purchased a Harbor Fright Powder Coating kit, linked here:

https://www.harborfreight.com/10-30-...tem-94244.html

I've already got the compressor etc. And, I just bought a used Jenn Air residential oven. That particular oven does not have a cook top which, is no biggie to me 'cause, I wasn't gonna need it anyways. But, in its earlier life, it was hardwired to a junction box behind where it was housed in the cabinets.

So, I want to make this oven portable. I'm gonna build a wheeled cart/tray for it so I can move it to where I can plug it in and use it. Then, when done, I can wheel it to where it will be parked when not in use.
But, here's my question/issue. I have two potential plugs outside that I can possibly plug into. One, is the 50A RV outlet and the other, is a 20A three prong Table saw/Air compressor outlet.
Based on the fact that the my breaker for our home range is a 40A, I'm thinking I can't use the table saw/compressor plug even though it's 220V.
So, that leaves the 50A RV outlet.

Now, when researching this stuff, I see replacement Range plugs as three prong versions and, four prong versions. The flexible conduit that came with this Jenn Air has three wires, a red, white and black. And, it has a solid copper which, I know is for the ground. So, I'm pretty sure the red and black are hot, and the white is a neutral.

I also have, as an option, my welder extension cord. It's a three prong, 50A cord. I can run it from the plug on the wall just inside the garage to the outside to where the oven will be used. I'd then have to build a cord that would be permanently attached to the oven but, have a plug on the other end, just like any appliance. But, which type of plug?

If I were to use the RV plug, I'd have to buy a plug for that end that would be the standard 4 prong RV 50A male. But, on the other end, I'd have to setup for whatever kind of plug, both male and female that would allow for me to plug into that cord from the RV outlet. Now, I can't use the RV plug on the outside wall, where it is. The boat is in the way. So, like stated I'd buy a standard RV 50A male, attach it to oh, maybe some at least 10GA SO cord, that's gonna be about 20-25' long, and put the female of whatever kind of 220V plug that I need on that end. Then, have the opposite male end on the 3'-5' cord permanently attached to the oven.

So, that's my dilemma. What's my best approach here.
Scott
P.S. IN the pics, you'll see my table saw/compressor plug, my welder extension cord female end, and the wires in the flexible conduit that came with the oven. The only pics you don't see are the RV 50A. You all know what that looks like.
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Old 03-29-2020, 06:30 PM   #2
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Put a standard RV 240V/50amp plug on the oven wires. Then use a standard 240V/50amp RV extension cord to connect it to your RV outlet. Done.

Don't even think about using any of your table saw outlets or cords.
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Old 03-29-2020, 06:43 PM   #3
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Scott, FlyingDiver just gave you the simplest and probably the best course of action. You can buy a RV 240v/50amp extension cord. I bought one for my RV just in case I need it when out.

What are you going to powder coat?

Be safe - Richard
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Old 03-29-2020, 06:48 PM   #4
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Scott the first picture I see is a combo 15/20 amp 120 volt outlet , which of the appliances , (, powder coat ?? ,) uses that amp/volt. didn't see the power specs in the link.

JMHO: stick with the 50 amp RV outlet and extension for the oven ; SAFEST way to go , the 220/240 extension for compressor ( three prong ) leave that entire system alone . BTW , there is one in my garage ; from a previous owner and I'm pulling it out , my yard is set for RVs and if I ever sell I don't want the next owner trying to hook to it.

EDIT: boy I read and type slow, I see others have posted while I was away.
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Old 03-29-2020, 06:55 PM   #5
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Electric Ranges use between 30 to 50 amps of 240 VAC, depending on the model, and require a connection with neutral and ground. 50 Amp RV Outlet will work great. The oven part of the Electric Range will draw 21 amps of 240 VAC or less depending on the model.
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Old 03-29-2020, 07:27 PM   #6
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You can buy a 3ft range cord from almost anywhere. It will have the same plug as your RV outlet.

Take the lead off the back of the oven and wire the cord on. Make sure you get a 4 wire cord and the little clamp for where the cord goes in the back of the oven.
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Old 03-29-2020, 09:26 PM   #7
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First,
Let me say I most sincerely appreciate all your help here. As you can see and read, I've done my share of trying to help folks with RV issues but, when it comes to this *heavy duty* electrical residential stuff, well, yep, I need coaching.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingDiver View Post
Put a standard RV 240V/50amp plug on the oven wires. Then use a standard 240V/50amp RV extension cord to connect it to your RV outlet. Done.

Don't even think about using any of your table saw outlets or cords.
I thank you for your suggestion. So far, that's my top option. By far, not the cheapest but, it's a safe one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rrtribble View Post
Scott, FlyingDiver just gave you the simplest and probably the best course of action. You can buy a RV 240v/50amp extension cord. I bought one for my RV just in case I need it when out.

What are you going to powder coat?

Be safe - Richard
Richard,
Thanks for participating here. What am I gonna powder coat? Anything I can. I'm gonna start by powder coating some racks I made for my little Yamaha TW 200 that we take on various RV trips. When I'm out and about on that little tractor bike, I sometimes need to carry things and, so far, all I have is a back pack. Well, that's getting a bit heavy. So, I looked at aftermarket racks for that little bike and, well, long story short, I've got a few decades of fabrication under my belt (if I could only see my belt ) and, I've got a few grand worth of welders etc. so, I figured, why not build them?

The rear rack and mounting system is done. The front rack is also done, just hammering out the mounting for it. When done, I'm gonna try my first attempt at powder coating, using them as Guinee pigs. If it goes anywhere near as goos as planned, I'll be powder coating lots of stuff, RV stuff included, based on the fact that, the size of the oven is the governing factor.
Below are pics of the racks and one mounting system, ready for coating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip426 View Post


Scott the first picture I see is a combo 15/20 amp 120 volt outlet , which of the appliances , (, powder coat ?? ,) uses that amp/volt. didn't see the power specs in the link.

JMHO: stick with the 50 amp RV outlet and extension for the oven ; SAFEST way to go , the 220/240 extension for compressor ( three prong ) leave that entire system alone . BTW , there is one in my garage ; from a previous owner and I'm pulling it out , my yard is set for RVs and if I ever sell I don't want the next owner trying to hook to it.

EDIT: boy I read and type slow, I see others have posted while I was away.
Skip,
Thanks for your input here. The first pic, the one with the three prongs, one horizontal, one vertical and a round one, IS my table saw/compressor plug on the outside of my RV garage. Both my compressor and table saw are wired for 220 usage. My compressor never comes outside but, never the less, it uses that style plug.

The other female plug you see is the end of an extension cord for my two different welders, a TIG/STICK and, a MIG. Oh, and my PLASMA cutter uses that style plug too. That extension cord for the welders is I think, 6GA three wire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by powercat_ras View Post
Electric Ranges use between 30 to 50 amps of 240 VAC, depending on the model, and require a connection with neutral and ground. 50 Amp RV Outlet will work great. The oven part of the Electric Range will draw 21 amps of 240 VAC or less depending on the model.
Thank you for your help here. I'm leaning towards using the RV outlet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by twinboat View Post
You can buy a 3ft range cord from almost anywhere. It will have the same plug as your RV outlet.

Take the lead off the back of the oven and wire the cord on. Make sure you get a 4 wire cord and the little clamp for where the cord goes in the back of the oven.
Hey Twinboat,
I surely appreciate your help here too. I'm a bit puzzled at something though. You say if I buy a replacement range plug, it will have the same plug as my RV outlet? Well, as you know the appearance, my RV plug on the outside of my RV garage, looks like the one in the link:

https://www.amazon.com/Talon-LGP1S-E...=fsclp_pl_dp_1

The Range replacement cord that I'm thinking I need looks like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Whirlpool-817...5538139&sr=8-1

As you can see, they're no where near alike. Yet, the one in the second link is rated for 40 amps which, I'm pretty sure is identical to the one for the range in our kitchen but, not positive. And, a 220 also. The last couple of pics show the ends of the flexible conduit leads which, were given to me when I bought the oven. It was hardwired to the wall, where it came from. So, it's pretty obvious I won't be using anything from that flexible conduit. I'll just tie into the lugs on the back of that oven directly with the new cord, whichever one I finally get. Thanks again.
Scott

P.S. These are what I'm gonna attempt to powder coat.
Scott
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Old 03-29-2020, 10:06 PM   #8
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Get a 50 amp range cord.Click image for larger version

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Old 03-30-2020, 05:44 AM   #9
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Sorry if I'm late to the party but unless you already have an extension cord (RV) you are planning to use, I would get a length of 6g SO or SJO cable long enough to reach from your 50 amp receptacle to wherever you are planning to use oven (less than 100ft) then direct connect to oven and use replacement RV plug similar to the one below. Especially if existing receptacle and breaker are rated 50 amp. If not, size accordingly.

https://www.amazon.com/Dumble-Amp-Pl...2C150&sr=8-256
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Old 03-30-2020, 08:14 PM   #10
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Your 3 wire plug is hot hot ground, not hot hot neutral by design. If someone changed it it is not standard. I'm speaking of the 50 amp welder plug. You can adapt a 4 wire 6hot/6hot/6neutral/8ground to a 3 wire hot hot ground, but not the other way around. I did see you mentioned a bare ground wire, not sure I follow that.
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Old 03-30-2020, 08:35 PM   #11
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I gotta add. A good friend of mine is a body guy, and ( without powder coating ) their is stuff on the market one can spray, roll, brush on a frame, over sanded rust, and it will harden so one can hit it with a ball-pean hammer and not chip off.
So it would be cheapest and best to go that rout.
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Old 04-01-2020, 10:10 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FIRE UP View Post
Gang,
Here's my plan. And, this does have something to do with RV's, you'll see when I'm done explaining. I'm gonna get into some home *Powder coating". Powder coating is actually quite simple. You need a gun, an air supply and, an oven. Well, based on the actual reviews, I purchased a Harbor Fright Powder Coating kit, linked here:

https://www.harborfreight.com/10-30-...tem-94244.html

I've already got the compressor etc. And, I just bought a used Jenn Air residential oven. That particular oven does not have a cook top which, is no biggie to me 'cause, I wasn't gonna need it anyways. But, in its earlier life, it was hardwired to a junction box behind where it was housed in the cabinets.

So, I want to make this oven portable. I'm gonna build a wheeled cart/tray for it so I can move it to where I can plug it in and use it. Then, when done, I can wheel it to where it will be parked when not in use.
But, here's my question/issue. I have two potential plugs outside that I can possibly plug into. One, is the 50A RV outlet and the other, is a 20A three prong Table saw/Air compressor outlet.
Based on the fact that the my breaker for our home range is a 40A, I'm thinking I can't use the table saw/compressor plug even though it's 220V.
So, that leaves the 50A RV outlet.

Now, when researching this stuff, I see replacement Range plugs as three prong versions and, four prong versions. The flexible conduit that came with this Jenn Air has three wires, a red, white and black. And, it has a solid copper which, I know is for the ground. So, I'm pretty sure the red and black are hot, and the white is a neutral.

I also have, as an option, my welder extension cord. It's a three prong, 50A cord. I can run it from the plug on the wall just inside the garage to the outside to where the oven will be used. I'd then have to build a cord that would be permanently attached to the oven but, have a plug on the other end, just like any appliance. But, which type of plug?

If I were to use the RV plug, I'd have to buy a plug for that end that would be the standard 4 prong RV 50A male. But, on the other end, I'd have to setup for whatever kind of plug, both male and female that would allow for me to plug into that cord from the RV outlet. Now, I can't use the RV plug on the outside wall, where it is. The boat is in the way. So, like stated I'd buy a standard RV 50A male, attach it to oh, maybe some at least 10GA SO cord, that's gonna be about 20-25' long, and put the female of whatever kind of 220V plug that I need on that end. Then, have the opposite male end on the 3'-5' cord permanently attached to the oven.

So, that's my dilemma. What's my best approach here.
Scott
P.S. IN the pics, you'll see my table saw/compressor plug, my welder extension cord female end, and the wires in the flexible conduit that came with the oven. The only pics you don't see are the RV 50A. You all know what that looks like.

Looks like you have the best answer with what Flyingdiver gave you.
Not sure what amperage your oven pulls under full load, but I would think it has a plate on it somewhere that will show this. If it is above 24 amps you could not use the 10ga DJO cord you mentioned and if it did pull an amp load above 15 amps you would want to keep your cord length not more than about 25í or so. I didnít do the calculations but higher amp loads shorter cord length recommended.

If the RV plug isnít the easiest option you could simply use the welder cord and put a short cord on your range with the matching plug as the receptacle on your welder cord. The white wire and the bare wire do the same thing in a 220/240 volt single phase system and except in specific applications residential panels the ground and the neutral are bonded so both wires are bonded when they reach the panel box. You would put both the white and the green wire on the ground terminal and the black and the red on the two feed terminals.

I just wanted give you another option if it is more convenient. I would recommend that which ever of the two routes you take use an 8 gauge cord or larger for your oven.

Typically cords are rated at 80% of the wires capacity but the longer the cord the more it is derated. There are exceptions but no need to get into them and confuse the issue.
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Old 04-01-2020, 04:08 PM   #13
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I again want to thank all who've contributed to this thread and are trying to help me in this issue. While the suggestion to use an RV 50A extension cord and, wire the oven with a pig tail with an RV 50A plug on it, is most likely the most *correct* way to go, it's by far, the most expensive. I'm not normally one to shy away from cost if it means getting a job done the right way, the first time.

But, this project, of home Powder coating, is purely an experiment. I've bought an old Jenn Air oven that I don't even know if it works. The previous owners say it did/does but, what does that mean? I only paid $30 for the oven.

I paid $69 for a Harbor Fright Powder coating kit. I have on order, one pound of *Silver Vein* powder coat that will be used for my first powder coating job on my motorcycle racks.

If I go the RV 50A extension route, just the extension cord alone will be well over the cost of the three components I've gotten so far, not including the plug and wire needed to attach to the oven. And in all the years we've camped, RV'd and traveled, in reality, we've not ever needed a 50A extension cord. So, buying one, expensive at that, just for a once every once in a while project of home powder coating, sure seems not logical to me.

But, already having a 6/3 50A welding extension cord that, reaches from it's wall plug, to about 8' away from where the oven can potentially be used, then procuring about 10' of 6/3 cable and a welder plug, sure seems like

A. It will handle anything the oven wants to dish out due to the demands of a welder being used on that same cord, (not at the same time of course)
B. Far less in cost, including the wire and plug needed to permanently attach to the back of the oven.

Now, the only thing that may be questionable is, that housing ground used in a 4 wire 50A setup. It has been suggested that I can compensate for that with the use of an independent wire and alligator clips from the body of the oven to the panel. And that run is about 3'-4' long.

Again, I don't want to discount any advice here from any of you. I asked for it. I'm just trying to logically reason things out in a reasonable manor to help me accomplish this *potential* play-time endeavor. Thank you all again.
Scott
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