Politics and Religion in polite company

[read & learn]

One of the reasons I join iRV2 was the FAMILY type of banter that was permitted and if it went off track the offending person[s] were giving notice that they would be banned from iRV2.
I, for one have never recieved a warning, I have been percieved to be attacking someone. When that person responded that they felt I was attacking them I responded and apologized, restated my humble opinion that was accepted as just a comment about the subject.
Jim Steward has put many good comments on this web site some I don't agree with but I respect his right to his opinion and he can be to bad of a guy, he did change his avatar because it upset someone.

[flagypsy]

It is easy not to speak out, that is what most people want until they are no longer allowed to speak out.

[hamguy]

To Jim's comment, "I apologize for any problems I many have caused or contributed to. I will try to do better in the future!"

Me too.

Originally Posted by RV Roamer [Gary]

It's very difficult to have discussion of politics or religion without somebody having a strongly held conviction that is in opposition to someone else's equally strongly held opinion. Even good friends can have their relationship strained when it comes to that sort of debate, so it should not be surprising that in a wide open forum with thousands of participants, some people will come on go too far and stir up trouble. In my opinion, it is best to simply leave these topics for other venues, of which there are plenty.

I have virtually NO views re: religion. I can understand most any view that doesn't involve killing me. As a physicist I can see each view of the beginnings, but for the life of me, I don't see what difference it makes.

As to politics.... wellllllll

[SeeTheUSA]

Originally Posted by flagypsy

It is easy not to speak out, that is what most people want until they are no longer allowed to speak out.

Exactly! Most rights lost are those given away.

As a society, we pretend to be moving toward more tolerance . . . but actually we're becoming more intolerant. Folks are not allowed to express their views unless they meet a strict and limited set of politically-correct subjects.

Must be a right-wing conspiracy . . . . no, a left-wing conspiracy . . . oh, I'm not sure!

Guess I'd better shut up. Might offend someone.

[Chickadee]

Just asking, for sake of discussion. What would be wrong with adding a topic header solely for those who wish to engage in discussions having to do with such devisive topics? After all, as some have well noted hereabove, efforts to stifle exchanges having so much to do with our lives, INCLUDING our RV lifestyles, can make this a much more vibrant forum site, and I'd like to see iRV2 participants FREE to discuss issues IF they choose to do so, under a SPECIAL topic category strictly for such potentially divisive exchanges. In other words....LET PEOPLE EXPRESS THEMSELVES....if they want to. So much can be learned from such exchanges. For example, the contributor in post #12 above, felt the need to express what could be easily construed as a THINLY veiled slam of the Bush administration which moderators could easily have "moved" (ie., relocated) to such a "Give & Take" topic header where other contributors could respond or NOT, as they choose. The key word here is CHOOSE.

Steve

[chasfm11]

Steve, the problem is that some folks just cannot contain themselves, regardless of the topic. There was a thread some time ago about leaving RV.NET and I can easily tell you why. There, discussion cannot be held at the idea or opinion level. Many (and I use that word advisedly) cannot separate the idea from its holder and when they cannot rationally counter the idea, they attack the person. That has happened here but the Mods do a great job of quashing it quickly. RV.NET mods try but sometimes the volume is just too great and the thread has run amuck before they catch it. I cannot remember a thread there that mentioned Wal-Mart that hasn't gotten closed or deleted. Now who would believe that people would be attacked over their feelings about Wal-Mart?

IMHO, we've lost the art of having a debate, especially a spirited one. Perhaps it is because the level of anger that many of us feel is too high and even the slightest feeling conflict brings it to the surface. I can remember in school where teachers taught us to have a debate, based on ideas. I doubt that is done any more. Conflict handling may be one of the greater missing elements in our society. We certainly have a lot of occasions to use it.

[ISLAPP]

Steve, as already mentioned, a forum of one like you propose would not be appropriate for the idea's of iRV2. The forum would undoubtably turn into a flaming area over certain topics and we dont want to have that type of activity here. It does not blend well with what our other forums represent.
Mike

[doc]

There is an RV forum on the net that does allow for political discussion. I read it occasionally and frankly, I see more heated discussions and flaming in some of the 'Ford vs Chevy', 'weight police', and 'WalMart camping' threads. Not advocating adding such a forum here since iRV2 was founded with a non-political promise.

[Chickadee]

chasfm11 & ISLAPP:

G'morning. It's good to hear back from both of you.

I do agree that ..."Conflict handling...." is becoming a "missing element" in our society,....... but,..... I feel this is to the detriment of our society. Yes, I certainly know there are folks who are unable to separate the idea from the holder and who resort to sophomoric/childlike name calling attacks on others, however, simply because there are some folks like that, doesn't mean others should forfeit their freedom to carry on meaningful exchanges.

It's more work to think, and to carry on useful discussions than it is to attack another. I think that if we avoid integrating free discussion of conflicting points of view, even in our RV'ing lives, then we're abdicating a responsibility to face problems and to WORK out solutions. I also think that if we give up and ignore this responsibility, that the "flamers" will govern the future....and this is something I'm not (yet) willing to accept as the destiny for our America. Ya think??? Steve

[ISLAPP]

Steve, although I agree with many of your thoughts and arguments, the bottom line is that the administration and ownership of this site has decided politics and religion should not be discussed here. By the way, that thought process has been here since day one. It is just lately that some issues came up that required reiteration of those facts. And since it is their choice to do so, you and I will have to abide by those requirements.

So let's get back to the rv'ing stuff. Personally, I find it alot more fun anyways!!!
Any one seen an overloaded truck pulling a overloaded trailer lately going too fast and getting ready to pull into a Walmart for the week???!!!



Mike

[TXiceman]

Originally Posted by ISLAPP

So let's get back to the rv'ing stuff. Personally, I find it alot more fun anyways!!!


Mike

I have to agree. Remember...Your worst day spent in an RV is 1000% better than your best day at work.

Ken

[widowson1968]

We would rather discuss RV topics than burden ourselves with untenable issues and personality conflicts.

Jack&Rita

[Dmiles]

Well I started one of the threads that got closed, and I did participate, although I always debated ideas, and never attacked anyone personally. In fact, after a while I intentionally stayed away because it pretty much boils down to;

Roughly half will agree with your post and roughly half will disagree, both to varying levels.

After your insightful, inspired words are read and digested,

roughly half will agree with your post, and roughly half will disagree, both to varying levels.

Since I'm still working and I also have a life, (AKA 2 year old son, wife, and RV which is great for hauling around my scuba gear) in the end debating even important issues in an RV forum moved down the priority list of things on which I choose to spend my time.

Especially right now, I find it a much more productive use of my time to keep the political discussions aimed at my Senators and Representatives. I have been making my feeling clear to these folks for many years, and it is much easier now than ever before, with all the channels of communication that were never dreamed of even 5 years ago. Of course, there are many who will say that even this is a waste of time, and that's fine, and I'm sure after reading this, they will still feel the same way...

[Lynnvt]

Dmiles, I commend you for writing to your legislators rather than having political discussions on rv websites. It actually might make a difference. I have made many friends here with many differing opinions. We agree to disagree on certain subjects. I long ago quite posting any political opinions here because most of these people don't know me, don't have a basis to know whether or not I am worth listening to and hence I will not be changing any minds.