Service? or lack of Service?

[Hooligan]

A big factor in service and repair for the RV is the dealer.. I bought this RV in June 2015, from Carpenters Campers in Pensacola, it has been overnight at the dealer for only 5 days total.. I have had several problems, some required ordering and waiting for parts, but I could continue to use the RV until the parts arrived. When I had a list of repairs and a trip planned, the dealer had the RV for 2 days to complete that list in time.

This is my 3rd RV, while it is under warranty, I have any problems corrected by the dealer (even minor ones) so there is a record in case something becomes a bigger issue later.

I see a lot of complaints here on the forum about the large franchised dealerships being more interested in sales than in providing service.

[jpharley]

Our 5th wheel manufacturer had an outstanding service facility. Even though they are no longer manufacturing 5th wheels (NuWa), they transitioned to a dealership and kept their service center open. We let the service center know what our issues are and make an appointment. We show up on our appointment date and an assigned team is waiting for us. If it is multi day repair, they try to return the unit back for the night. The only problem is that they are located in Kansas but if we have a serious issue that we cannot handle ourselves, we take our 5th wheel to them. They are the best RV service center we have ever experienced. NuWa also made the commitment to honor all warranty work after stopping production. Most manufacturers do not do that. I do not think they work on motor home though.

[Brian W]

Originally Posted by ahicks

The reason for the tech shortage almost always comes back to low wages, seasonal work, and poor working conditions, in that order. 2 of those 3 conditions (wages, conditions) easily fixed/controlled with decent management decisions. The fact RV repair can be pretty seasonal in many parts of the country (including some of the most populated) actually requires some skill on managements part. Ideas like free storage in return for work orders that will require serious time (collision, water damage repair, etc.), can keep a crew pretty busy year round. Managing work that for out requires that the store owner/manager have an active hand in service (rare in my experience), or pay decent wages to somebody that can manage their back end with competency (leading back to wage issues, and adding high turnover). It can be done - but obviously, you don't see it often (enough).

I can't speak for any other dealership than the one I work at. We have a online job opening for 8 techs right now. Low wages is the least of the problem, it's the lack of techs with any experience. We pay our experienced techs good darn money. Even our techs in training make twice our areas average salary.

[ahicks]

So just to satisfy my curiosity, and for conversation -
How many techs are there, where you work? Of those, how many are making their work a career, having been there 5 - 10 years or more? If the career guys are in the minority compared to the rest, what do you believe the reason for that is?

If you folks need 8 techs, what changed that caused the need for that many?

Speaking for myself, bringing that amount of new help on, even if they were spread out over as many weeks, is the stuff headaches are made of. The potential for mistakes huge...

[Brian W]

Originally Posted by ahicks

So just to satisfy my curiosity, and for conversation -
How many techs are there, where you work? Of those, how many are making their work a career, having been there 5 - 10 years or more? If the career guys are in the minority compared to the rest, what do you believe the reason for that is?

If you folks need 8 techs, what changed that caused the need for that many?

Speaking for myself, bringing that amount of new help on, even if they were spread out over as many weeks, is the stuff headaches are made of. The potential for mistakes huge...

Ahicks, i just typed a huge long response and was probably a minute
away from hitting reply when my battery died on my phone. Gonna charge my phone up and try to retype it all tonight. If I can't get it done tonight I will definitely get it done tomorrow.

[Ms G]

Unfortunately it is. We bought a brand new camper and it was back in the shop a week later their excuse is we're waiting for warranty approval. Have not even been on our first trip yet. The RV industry has terrible service.

[Brian W]

Originally Posted by ahicks

So just to satisfy my curiosity, and for conversation -
How many techs are there, where you work? Of those, how many are making their work a career, having been there 5 - 10 years or more? If the career guys are in the minority compared to the rest, what do you believe the reason for that is?

If you folks need 8 techs, what changed that caused the need for that many?

Speaking for myself, bringing that amount of new help on, even if they were spread out over as many weeks, is the stuff headaches are made of. The potential for mistakes huge...

Techs - 10 in service, plus foreman. 4 in PDI, plus manager. 1 dedicated to pre-PDI's of trade ins. Our PDI is separate from the service shop, and has it's own shop.

Career Techs - Asked me 18 months ago, and most of our techs had been there at least five years and some much longer. Today at our shop at least five years would be 3. However, there is a reason for that. Our service foreman who had been with the dealership around 15 years started to slack as a foreman. After hours training was often cancelled on short notice, techs resented his "management" style, there was no rhyme or reason for the order in which units were selected to be worked on. The final straw was when he made a comment along the lines of he didn't give a damn about the customers. He was gone the next day.

Another senior tech developed a attitude problem and his work got sloppy. Final straw for him was a unit he supposedly repaired that wasn't, resulting in a unit getting water inside of it when the customer parked it at his site. Bye bye senior tech 2, with close to 10 years at the dealership. Not only did we lose a senior tech, but hiring a contractor to make sure the water was cleaned up and all their fancy machines used to make sure the coach didn't have any issues later down the line didn't come cheap. Of course once all that was completed we ripped out the floor and put a new sub floor and wood flooring in. Total cost in the many thousands.

So we hire a new shop foreman who started at Millenium Coaches, worked at Liberty Coach, and then became the service manager at Tom Johnson. We were fortunate to get him as he didn't want to work for a corporate dealership when Tom Johnson was bought out. His leadership style is much different than the prior shop foreman and 2 more technicians with over 5 years leave.

I would suggest longevity at one place isn't always a great thing. So how did we replace those techs? Our shop foreman brought 2 of his techs with him who are trained/certified to work on any coach made. They both have over 5 years experience. One is 26 years old and missed his master certification by 2 answers. He will be taking the exam next year, and I have no doubts he will pass the exam at that time.

We then hired 2 more techs away from other dealerships. One has almost 4 years experience, and the other over 5 years. We have techs that have close to 4 years experience and our dealership and if you talk to them plan on being there a ling time. Of course things change, so who knows.

We have an in house training program for people that want to become techs, we pay for an online RVIA course that's not cheap, we also send techs to manufacturers schools frequently. We send them to specialized schools, such as aqua hot, winegard, etc. We pay our techs above the industry average. These are all things we do to try to keep our techs in house and build that longevity while retaining the experienced ones. One last thing to add, not everone wants to work/live in North Mississippi.

Why 8 more techs - we have expanded, and we want to cut the times units are at the dealerhip getting work done. Of course it goes without saying that the longer the wait to get a unit in and serviced the more potential customers you lose. Lost customers = lost money, let's call it what it is. I should have been clear that those 8 positions are for experienced techs only. What my owner considers experienced, I have no clue, I can ask him when he gets back from dealer days meetings in Florida. I do know this much, the jobs have 90 applicants right now, and none meet his criteria.

Bringing 8 techs on - as mentioned above, only looking for experienced techs. The ones we have hired away from other dealerships simply unloaded their tool boxes and got to work. They have to really only learn our procedures that are different from their previous dealership.

We have made some pretty significant changes since I started working at the dealership almost 2 years ago. Retired after 26 years in the military and only wanted a part time job consisting of 3 days a week. What better place for an RV'er than a RV dealership? Well three days a week has turned to 6 days a week, and I plan on it being my last place of employment before me and the wife fo full time.

Now the final thing I will add. I strongly believe in our dealership, and what we are trying to do. Do we get it right all the time? Of course not. Do we absolutely screw the pooch sometimes? Yep, unfortunately. If I thought we weren't constantly trying to improve, I would hit the door in a heartbeat. It can be extremely frustrating to read about some of the things that happen in the industry as are pisted on this great site. It can also be equally frustrating to read things like RV techs today are incompetent, how do you know a person at a RV dealership are lying? Their lips are moving, etc etc. do I take that personally? You're damn right I do. I know how hard our people work, how hard they try, and how much they care.

I love trying to give some insight into how a dealership works, as long as it stays cordial.

Sorry for the extremely long post, and thanks for asking. Any more questions, fire away.

Brian W.

p.s. Sorry for any typos.

[wahoonc]

Good points Brian. Unfortunately in my experience your dealership is the exception rather than the rule. I have been buying, repairing and using RV's for over 35 years. My last 3 RV purchases from dealers have not got a smooth as they should. Fortunately due to my PDI's and due diligence I have not had any major warranty issues (knock on wood). Small things I will fix myself just to save the hassle of having to haul it back to the dealer. Unfortunately many of the factories continue to crank out substandard work and less than stellar dealers continue to not do a proper PDI leaving it up to the customer to find the issues. Those are the people you are hearing from, I understand their frustrations. All that can be done it to try and educate people about the entire RV industry and process. It is how a dealer and manufacturer responds to an issue that makes the difference.

What I think would be an interesting solution would be for the RV manufacturers to set up regional repair centers with factory reps. Eventually the RV industry might see that lack of Quality really does have a cost and impact on the bottom line.

I am in the process of writing a letter to the owner of the dealership that we purchased our current RV from, sales was good, the PDI went well and the parts department shipped the necessary warranty parts ASAP. Our issue has been with their paperwork department, and not even all of them. We have one representative that is trying her best to get things done but her boss appears to be lazy and incompetent. Still waiting on permanent plates some 45 days after the sale.

At least your dealership had the decency to rid yourself of the less than stellar employees. Too many places these days just hire bodies to fill the slots. My company does that on occasion and it always ends up costing us money.

Aaron

[camato5]

Our experiences are much the same. Camping World here in North Little Rock is horrible and I had a hard time getting anything done on a brand new coach I purchased from them. I ended up taking it to Moix RV in Conway Arkansas (where I had purchased my first 5th wheel). They treat me like a king. I called to get service on a warranty item the other day and they told be to drop it off this week and they will knock it out. They have repaired warranty items before on this MH. Agree with one person who suggests to learn and repair it yourself but when it comes to warranty work I have the folks in Conway do it. Thor has also been great when I call the service department. They have helped me out of a few binds and have always been ready to help.
I learned like you that owning an RV is not the same as a car. Hang in there though, it will get better. You are not alone

[MRUSA14]

Brian, I appreciate your candor and your attitude. But I wonder about the policy of hiring only experienced techs when it is well understood that there is a huge shortage of same. It seems to me that hiring young people with talent and teaching them the ropes is a more sure-fire way to solve the problem than trying to hire experienced techs who basically do not exist (at least in sufficient quantity). Yes, training new people takes time but so does waiting for experienced folks to show up.

Apprenticeship is an age-old method of producing skilled workers. I have managed a service business and I understand that there will be both successful and unsucessful trainees, but training new people was the only way to meet the demand in my business, and this may also be true in the RV business.

[Hit_the_Rhod]

Brian, thanks for your service. Both in the Military, and with your customers. As stated above, given your synapses of your dealership, yours is the exception. I to dislike to be painted by a broad brush. I realize that there are a lot of good techs and good repair establishments out there, but many of the people out there have a lot of bad experiences from the other type! And those are the ones you hear about on forums!

It seems that with the current situation where an RV manufacturer can sell every RV he can crank off of the assembly line, the emphasis on quality control is less, or in some cases down right missing. The manufacturers and Repair Shops who continue to stress Quality Build, and Customer Service will be the ones to survive through the next lean time, and anyone who doesn't believe that there will be another lean time is just deluding his or herself!

[Brian W]

Alright, see some good questions/opinions popping up. Am on a break, been at work since 5:30. Will attempt to answer any questions/comments when I get home tonight. Yep, on my breaks I read IRV2. Love this site.

One quick thing. My owner is very responsive to ideas, changes that will make us better. I have suggested several changes I have read on here. Some have been implemented, some not.

[TQ60]

Something for the toolbox is simple communication.

Most states have clear consumer protection laws regarding warranties...that small print at the end that states you may have other protections...

One is that the clock STOPS when said warranty item is out of owners control for said warranty work.

One reason for allowing owners to use at night...

So when a discussing warranty service first CONFIRM they ate actually authorized by manufacturer to perform it with manufacturer parts then confirm exact schedule as regardless of the issue they likely have performed it once before and have a general idea of how long it takes and should be able to advise schedule.

Then if it is more that a day or 3 then ask them to to provide documentation confirming new warranty end date after repairs completed.

Yes...If they are manufacturer authorized servicer and if your state has that protection and you ask they need to adjust the warranty date to reflect time out of your control.

Also note that anything reported as warranty while in warranty has no time limit until repaired.

Communicating the clock stop may get you fixed a bit sooner and advising understanding that repair must be correct may get it done correctly.

[Brian W]

Originally Posted by wahoonc

Unfortunately many of the factories continue to crank out substandard work and less than stellar dealers continue to not do a proper PDI leaving it up to the customer to find the issues. Those are the people you are hearing from, I understand their frustrations. All that can be done it to try and educate people about the entire RV industry and process. It is how a dealer and manufacturer responds to an issue that makes the difference.

What I think would be an interesting solution would be for the RV manufacturers to set up regional repair centers with factory reps. Eventually the RV industry might see that lack of Quality really does have a cost and impact on the bottom line.

Aaron

Aaron,

I didn't quote your entire post, obviously, but would like to think that we do some things better than others.

As far as PDI's and walk thru's are
concerned. You don't sign the paperwork at our dealership until AFTER the PDI and walk thru are completed to your satisfaction. That one has cost us a few deals, as owners back out the day of their walk thru, find a problem and back out of the deal, etc.

Your comment about frustrated owners. I get it 100%. That's why we have a dedicated PDI department. I have been following and commenting on another thread where the customer showed up and there was a leveling jack missing, light fixture missing, and 44 other issues found before he stopped the walk thru. Want to get fired in my PDI shop (Iam the Service Advisor for PDI, and assistant to the manager), try pulling that crap.

Somethin else we have instituted about 6 months ago is if within 30 days after picking up the unit you have a problem(s) the unit comes right back to us, not the service department. We do everything we can to get it back as fast as possible. Bought a luxury coach? The time changes to 45 days. Want my personal cell phone number? Here you go. I took a call on Christmas Day that just passed. My manager also gives his out.

Our next improvement will be a dedicated walk thru area. We currently have the ability to put 2 45' diesel pushers, and 6 fifth wheels/travel trailers/etc in our inside area. This has neccesitated sometime moving a PDI to our service area. With the addition of the dedicated walk thru area our techs can do their PDI and then move the unit to a dedicated walk thru site. This will allow us to free up valuable inside PDI space while still allowing the techs to be close to their tools if problems are identified during the walk thru.

With all that said, we are far from a perfect dealership. We do have our issues like any business. We are constantly trying to improve. We hired an outside consultant to observe how we operate, find our shortcomings, and suggest ways to improve.

Fleetwood is trying the regional service center thing as we speak. They just opened one somewhere in Texas and my understanding from talking to one of their VP's is they are looking at a place in the SE as well.

Originally Posted by MRUSA14

Brian, I appreciate your candor and your attitude. But I wonder about the policy of hiring only experienced techs when it is well understood that there is a huge shortage of same. It seems to me that hiring young people with talent and teaching them the ropes is a more sure-fire way to solve the problem than trying to hire experienced techs who basically do not exist (at least in sufficient quantity). Yes, training new people takes time but so does waiting for experienced folks to show up.

Apprenticeship is an age-old method of producing skilled workers. I have managed a service business and I understand that there will be both successful and unsucessful trainees, but training new people was the only way to meet the demand in my business, and this may also be true in the RV business.

MRUSA14,

Perhaps I didn't explain things well in my post. We have an in house RV tech training program, and currently have 3 apprentices, or roughly 20% of our techs. We pay for a very expensive online training program, and they have mandatory computer time to gain knowledge, and improve on what they learn in on the job training.

They work with experienced
techs and start out helping on sealing a roof, replacing a latch, conducting a LP Drop Test, etc. as they prove themselves they may assist the tech by sealing the roof themselves. The tech is then required to check the apprentices work. Eventually, as they prove their skills and knowledge they get their own RO (Repair Order) with basic problems they can fix. They slowly move up with time. Our current goal is having all of our techs RVIA certified within 3 years.

I am of the opinion that having to many apprentices at one time can also cause problems. I think it goes without saying that while absolutely vital, it also slows the experienced tech down, and in the process the amount of units we can service in a given time. I think we all know that most people (including me) find the time to get your unit repaired to long.

I think you have to find the right balance. Our apprentices are paid on collectable, while our experienced techs are on flat rate. Guess which tech doesn't want to be slowed down to much?

As I said previously, I don't know what my owner constitutes as experienced. He has told me that one of the groups he looks for is aircraft techs. They are meticulous, used to working on electrical, plumbing, air conditioning, etc. I had never considered it, but the more we talked about it, the more it made sense to me.

Not sure when the dealer days meetings are over, but when he returns I will try to ask him exactly what he is looking for and report back.

Originally Posted by Hit_the_Rhod

Brian, thanks for your service. Both in the Military, and with your customers. As stated above, given your synapses of your dealership, yours is the exception. I to dislike to be painted by a broad brush. I realize that there are a lot of good techs and good repair establishments out there, but many of the people out there have a lot of bad experiences from the other type! And those are the ones you hear about on forums!

It seems that with the current situation where an RV manufacturer can sell every RV he can crank off of the assembly line, the emphasis on quality control is less, or in some cases down right missing. The manufacturers and Repair Shops who continue to stress Quality Build, and Customer Service will be the ones to survive through the next lean time, and anyone who doesn't believe that there will be another lean time is just deluding his or herself!

Allow me to first say thank you for your thanks, but not needed. I considered it an honor to serve my country, and now consider it an honor/responsibility to serve my fellow RV'ers. I am not always successful, but I can promise you the effort is there.

I couldn't look at you with a straight face and tell you that their aren't quality control problems with the manufacturers, without busting out laughing. Some of the deliveries we take make me just shake my head in disgust. Imagine how bad they must be when we refuse delivery, and yes,we do refuse deliveries at times. Let me also add that the quality issues range from the least expensive thing we carry, around 10K, to the most expensive thing we carry, around 650K MSRP. Yes, sime are better than others, but they all have their issues.

In the flip side, we have our own quality control problems at times. Lack of communication, sloppy workmanship, things that delay getting your coach fixed within the primised time. Definitely not proud when those things happen, and they do. Here's what does make me proud when those things happen though. We discuss what went wrong, why it went wrong, and if needed, hold people accountable. We also try to put processes in place to prevent it from happening again.

Here's what I do know in regards to your comment about who will survive in the lean times. We have doubled our size, increased sales, and have increased our customer satisfation rankings (manufacturers keep track through surveys). None of that was by accident.

Yep, I am awfully proud to work where I work, warts and all. I was looking back at some of my first posts on here, and there was one bragging about my dealership.....before I started working at it.

There are some other posters on here who work at dealerships and I get the impression from their posts that their dealerships are also trying to do the right thing by their customers.

It's not all doom and gloom. Myself, I am anxiously counting down the days until May the 6th gets here, and the Bounder takes her first trip of the year to see the big mouse in Florida. This year will be her last in the family, as we are either moving to a Dutch Star 4369 or Aspire 44B next year.

Any guesses where I will be buying from?

Have a great night,
Brian