Community Forums

chasfm11 · 02-13-2008, 08:19 AM

We are going to settlement tomorrow on the refinancing of our house. We've been told that we have to show up with our picture driver's licenses (no surprise) AND our Social Security cards. Huh?

First, the cards say on them "not for identification purposes." Second, there were laws passed within the last few years that forbid businesses for demanding and using Social Security information in their businesses. I've already had to provide our Social Security numbers in this refinancing process and I know that our credit reports, also part of this process, tie our names to our Social Security numbers. I asked the mortgage company representative why the SS cards were necessary and was told it was Homeland Security or some other agency and that part of the reason was possibible identity theft. Huh??????

Farmers Branch, one of our neighboring communities has caused a National media spotlight by passing laws requiring those that want to rent in the city to prove that they are legal residents. Everyone is up in arms about the "intrusion of privacy" and government's interference in commercial matters.

So it is OK not to ask potential illegal people about their status but I,as a tax paying, long term resident of the State of Texas have got to produce my Social Security information and share it with a Title company by Federal edict? What's up with that????

chasfm11 · 02-13-2008, 08:19 AM

We are going to settlement tomorrow on the refinancing of our house. We've been told that we have to show up with our picture driver's licenses (no surprise) AND our Social Security cards. Huh?

First, the cards say on them "not for identification purposes." Second, there were laws passed within the last few years that forbid businesses for demanding and using Social Security information in their businesses. I've already had to provide our Social Security numbers in this refinancing process and I know that our credit reports, also part of this process, tie our names to our Social Security numbers. I asked the mortgage company representative why the SS cards were necessary and was told it was Homeland Security or some other agency and that part of the reason was possibible identity theft. Huh??????

Farmers Branch, one of our neighboring communities has caused a National media spotlight by passing laws requiring those that want to rent in the city to prove that they are legal residents. Everyone is up in arms about the "intrusion of privacy" and government's interference in commercial matters.

So it is OK not to ask potential illegal people about their status but I,as a tax paying, long term resident of the State of Texas have got to produce my Social Security information and share it with a Title company by Federal edict? What's up with that????

RustyJC · 02-13-2008, 08:25 AM

Actually, there's a Federal law that SS# must be provided on any cash transaction of $10,000 or more. It was passed, I believe, to crack down on money laundering, primarily from the illegal drug "business".

This law means that I have been required to provide my SS# when I write a check for a new vehicle, RV, etc.

Rusty

chasfm11 · 02-13-2008, 08:57 AM

I understand about a "purchase" transaction but this really shouldn't come under that heading. I'm not buying my house again. I'm making a loan arrangement against it. Perhaps that is a distinction that only I am making. Actually, I wasn't asked for my SS card for the original purchase of this house in November, 2002. It is something that has happened since then. It is possible that the mortgage company just didn't explain their understanding of the requirement to me very well.

I guess the point that I was trying to make is that I'm being asked for a great deal more information and verification that others are willing to provide in the matter of housing. Since I already have a history on this property, I'm not sure that those requests are valid.

RustyJC · 02-13-2008, 09:23 AM

Yep, I don't know the details of your transaction (nor is it any of my business) but I could envision reporting requirements if cash is going into your hands from the home's equity, for instance.

Heck, I had to show proof of my SS# when I renewed my Texas driver's license in December!

Rusty

Ray,IN · 02-13-2008, 10:37 AM

Like it or not (I unequivocally DON'T) we are rapidly approaching the era of being identified in computer records by a number only. I always ask for written proof my SS number is a legal requirement. I do know Rusty is correct.

chasfm11 · 02-13-2008, 10:46 AM

There is no "cash" in my refinance situation. It is simply me trying to take advantage of a recent rate drop.

I know that all of the States are being driven by the Federal government to make sure that their driver's licenses are only given to actual citizens. Having to show a SS# for that doesn't surprise me. Of all of the "official" documents that I have, however, a SS card would be the easiest to fake.

**NLOVNIT** · 02-13-2008, 12:25 PM

In our situation, the absence of proper ID stopped identity theft.

We refinanced our home a few years ago & were also told to bring DL & SS card. When we arrived at the mortgage company's office, those were the first items they asked for. Seems, about half an hour before our appointment another couple, using our names, showed up to the refinancing. When asked for identification, they stated they forgot it & would need to leave to get it & return. It wasn't until we arrived that we all realized someone else was trying to commit identity theft. Of course, the other couple was long gone by then.

I'm sure that other couple, had they had ID that matched ours, would've been caught red handed anyway, since the signing of the refinancing documents (if I remember correctly) took longer than half an hour & they were there just before we arrived. However, just the fact that someone tried to impersonate Dave & I was a wake-up call for me.

I agree that some situations don't justify having to produce such ID & we have refusal rights, but, in this case, I'm glad it was required.

On the subject of DL renewal, OH is the same as TX. OH no longer requires your SS number be on your license. However, when renewing a DL that does not have the SS number on it, we're required to bring our SS card with us for verification. And it must be an original card - no photocopy.

L-

TXiceman · 02-13-2008, 12:48 PM

When we moved back to Texas at the end 0f 2005, we had to show the driver's license office a SS card to get a new Texas license. Also had to show the new employer the SS card.

If this not a form of ID, then what the heck is it? You can buy fake SS cards all day long at anyone of a number of flea markets.

Ken

Wind River · 02-13-2008, 01:39 PM

You cannot even open a bank account without a Social Security number. Your insurance company probably needs your SSN to properly rate your policy. Let's face it, your SSN is your ID number. You will either produce your SSN card or you will not get the refinance.

chasfm11 · 02-13-2008, 02:09 PM

Wind River, that is part of the point that I'm trying to make here. This is a re-finance. I don't escrow and have a home owners insurance policy that renews in November. I had to provide evidence that it is in force through loan funding (approximately 2/20). The insurance company is not taking action except providing the proof of insurance.

My SS# is NOT supposed to be my ID number. I understand having to provide it to start financial accounts because it is used for income tax purposes. There is nothing about this transaction that impacts my tax burden (I wish it did - I'd love to deduct the charges that I'm paying.)

There is not question that I'll produce the card. I already have it and my DWs set out for tomorrow. That doesn't mean that I have to like it. My original point was that there are a lot of people who shouldn't be here making a lot of transactions without any proper identification at all. I'm the one who has to produce it. That is just wrong. IMHO.

indiana journey · 02-13-2008, 02:19 PM

chasfm11, I know where you are comming from. The SS number is never to be used as ID. So the feds make a new law to do otherwise. What I want to know is; why do I have to give the state of Florida my SS number to get a fishing license. Must have something to do with those terrorist fishermen. Ha! Ha! I don't fish in Florida anymore! Indiana Journey

GaryKD · 02-13-2008, 02:52 PM

Understand what, if anything, the closing company will make available to the various gov't agencies. In Florida, the SS # began showing up in public records at the County Clerk's Office (and on their WEB site).

Those affected had to complete a form (it's the gov't, what else but another form) providing the details of the transaction to have the SS #s removed from the public records. It seems the county clerk must make available all information contained in the transaction record.

chasfm11 · 02-13-2008, 06:42 PM

Exactly, Gary. I'm being required to provide enough information that one or more governmental groups is only too happy to share with too many people that don't need to see it. I've become a lot more militant (can you tell???) about passing out any information about myself. My opinion is that most of that is collected for no valid reason and isn't used anyway. I've torn into the management in two different companies where problems developed with my account and neither of them made any attempt to contact me - no phone call, no e-mail, no snail mail, no nothing. My question to them was - if you aren't going to use it, why do I need to give it to you in the first place.

With a SS#, too many doors can be opened. Everyone and their dog has taken a photo copy of my driver's license. The combination of those two could get me into serious problems. All those who take my information protect themselves from me. Where is my protection in all of this? Sorry. I don't mean to rant on but situations like this just get me frustrated. While this thread is going on, 100 more people came into Texas and they manage to live here and do everything that I do without any of these requirements on them.

Grrrrrrrrrrrr.