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Old 03-24-2018, 09:19 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Oderus View Post
I never said who was at fault because no one knows until he investigation is done but I did see the released video. She walked in a dark area, not a crosswalk and she had dark clothing without reflectors.



For an established system yes.
Here you say that you never said who was at fault.
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Old 03-24-2018, 09:24 PM   #114
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Odd that you would hold 2 different standards when it comes to human vs. autonomous drivers. So if the driver was human, it's the pedestrians fault but it's automated, it's the cars fault? I don't follow that logic.

I'm a huge fan of personal responsibility. I didn't grow up entitled thinking the world owes me everything. I work for everything and part of work comes responsibility. That pedestrian crossed a road where it was dark and not controlled like at an intersection. She was also walking her bike so she chose to cross in a dangerous spot. It's her fault people, not the autonomous car.

While I agree some form of technology would help, you can't rely on technology to account for stupid people.
Here you say it's her fault again
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Old 03-24-2018, 09:40 PM   #115
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EVERYTHING BAD that happens in this sad world anymore is SOMEBODY ELSES FAULT..."oh poor me, I'm just a helpless victim"! My grandparents are turning over in their graves...

You do something stupid...you pay the price!
Has anyone here made it this far in life without doing at least one stupid thing?

Death for stupidity may help with overpopulation issues but that doesn't make it a good idea.
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Old 03-24-2018, 09:50 PM   #116
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Oh man.
When are you people going place responsibility where it belongs?
IF THE LADY HADN’T BEEN IN THE STREET WHERE SHE SHOULDN’T HAVE BEEN, SHE WOULD STILL BE ALIVE. Duh, CROSSWALK!
It wasn’t the car’s fault, it was the pedestrian’s fault for J-walking.
You people need to take responsibility for your actions.
Stop blaming everyone else for your screw-ups!
JEEZ
Would you feel the same way if your child or grandchild made an error and ended up dead?
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Old 03-25-2018, 02:42 AM   #117
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I am an advocate of autonomous vehicles. This accident should not have happened. These computer vehicles are supposed to be better than the average human driver. This just proves more work needs to be done. We're not there yet.

It wouldn’t have happened if the woman hadn’t walked out in front of the car, by J-walking. The car didn’t chase her down on the sidewalk.
Everyone’s line of logic faults the car. That’s like blaming the train for hitting you while you’re standing on the tracks.
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Old 03-25-2018, 02:50 AM   #118
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So all you people who think self driving cars are great....

Will you volunteer to walk out in front of one going 35 mph?

Nope. And I wouldn’t walk out in front a car being driven by a human either. Duh, you’re not supposed to walk out in front of a moving vehicle.
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Old 03-25-2018, 03:04 AM   #119
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Would you feel the same way if your child or grandchild made an error and ended up dead?
They are taught and have more sense than to walk out in front of a moving vehicle.
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Old 03-25-2018, 05:24 AM   #120
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It wouldn’t have happened if the woman hadn’t walked out in front of the car, by J-walking. The car didn’t chase her down on the sidewalk.
Everyone’s line of logic faults the car. That’s like blaming the train for hitting you while you’re standing on the tracks.
If this discussion were simply a "lets find fault" then you are right it appears from the limited information we have the pedestrian is at fault. But that's not what this discussion is about and why the NTSB and other authorities are investigating this accident.

Further investigation appears to have uncovered information leading to the possibility that Uber knew there was a problem with their autonomous cars. If this turns out to be true the legal beagles will be all over this. If Arizona allowed Uber to conduct experiments with their cars unsupervised and other states have some 3rd party supervision of driverless cars then perhaps this whole discussion will take a turn to the legal issues.

If Uber's cars are faulty compared to others and they knew it, then Uber and especially Arizona have some explaining to do.
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Old 03-25-2018, 05:39 AM   #121
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They are taught and have more sense than to walk out in front of a moving vehicle.
That's good, but these child's parents didn't:
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Old 03-25-2018, 06:02 AM   #122
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Isnt ironic that people are defending the autonomous technology as being safe on a thread about a fatal autonomous vehicle accident?

I watched the video. The car didn't react at all it just drove into the pedestrian.
A human driving only 40 mph surely would have reacted at some point. I dont know if the result would have been different but hey even the woman behind the steering wheel with her head down texting had time to react with a shocked facial expression.

This is a huge autonomous failure and its not the first.
There is no substitute for the human driver period.
The vehicle stopped at the scene. The Police think the vehicle was not at fault. That leaves me wondering what huge failure occurred.
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Old 03-25-2018, 06:16 AM   #123
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Some are saying it's her fault for not crossing at a crosswalk. So you're safe from these vehicles as long as you use a crosswalk? I guess I won't ever get to cross the street in my neighborhood because there are no crosswalks.


Welcome to the new world where Jay walking is no longer a ticketed offense, it's death by self-driving auto.


This auto should have seen here whether she was in a crosswalk or not. It being dark should have no bearing either. If this is what we are saying is safe then these vehicles need major changes.
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Old 03-25-2018, 06:32 AM   #124
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To the comment "She should not have been in the street".

Laws governing Bicycle riding vary from state to state. I know them IN ONE state only.

A common misconception is the "Motor Vehicle Code" Which by definition would not apply to vehicles, like Bicycles, that do NOT have a motor.. A fact I once invoked on a city ordance (The ordance specifically applied to MOTOR vehicles. I got ticketed for a Trailer, and what's worse the trailer was in compliance).

In Michigan the document is the MICHIGAN Vehicle Code (note the absence of "Motor" in the title) and yes, it applies to Bicycles.

MOST of the same laws apply to Bicycles as Motorcycles with the following major differences.

Laws against riding on the sidewalk.

A Bicyclist in Michigan must obey all Stop Signs, Traffic lights RIDE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE ROAD with not against traffic) and not on a limited access road.

A Bicycle or Motorcycle may make an otherwise prohibited LEFT turn provided the rider gets OFF the Bike and WALKES it through the turn..

That is MICHIGAN law. and yes. I know of cases where a bicyclest was ticked for wrong way riding. (Redford Twp, I-96/M-24 Intersection).

I have not checked the laws in other states. I used to ride a bicycle "Full Time" (no car) in Michigan.

Also there may be local ordinances that apply as well.
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Old 03-25-2018, 06:58 AM   #125
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This thread is spinning its autonomous wheels...going nowhere fast. Yin and Yang are alive and well!
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Old 03-25-2018, 07:27 AM   #126
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Here you say it's her fault again
Hey RVPioneer. I can't help but feel you're being a tad aggressive in this forum. I understand this is a potentially emotional topic with life/death being the outcome but this is supposed to be a friendly interchange.

I'll summarize my point one last time.

Autonomous cars are the future, they are safe.

Humans aren't trustworthy and make mistakes all the time.

It's "MY OPINION" that the pedestrian is at fault. Previously, I had mentioned that 'OFFICIALLY' there was no fault yet and then I watched the video and I saw that the pedestrian crossed the street in a dark location, not at a brightly lit crosswalk so then I said the pedestrian was at fault.

So, when new evidence came out, my opinion changed with facts.

Hope you have a good day.
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