Uber 'autonomous' car kills women

[Forkyfork]

Pedestrians are struck regularly here because they aren't in crosswalks and wear dark clothes. Its a shame that the wrong thing here carries the blame. The one thing Ive noticed is non drivers don't realize they are basically invisible at night and the headlights they see do nothing to make them visible in enough time for the driver to react. I was a dumb kid that played chicken with cars at night. It wasn't until I started driving a car I realized just how invisible I really was.

Also, ABS brakes don't leave skid marks, They leave a little chirp but is difficult to find especially by the untrained. Obviously the media grabs ahold of misinformation and runs with it.

Are Tire Marks Still Useful with ABS Systems? - CED BLOG
The question becomes, “If there is no wheel lock up and therefore no skidding, how can the accident reconstructionist/investigator determine the speed lost by the vehicle during emergency/panic braking?” Vehicles equipped with ABS brakes will in fact leave faint tire marks on the roadway when the ABS system is activated. A trained accident reconstructionist/investigator can actually visualize, measure and document ABS tire marks. However, these marks are highly perishable and can become undetectable in a very short time on a heavily traveled roadway. This short time frame is measured in hours or minutes as opposed to days and weeks for locked-wheel skid marks.

[Mrb1ll]

Originally Posted by Forkyfork

Pedestrians are struck regularly here because they aren't in crosswalks and wear dark clothes. Its a shame that the wrong thing here carries the blame. The one thing Ive noticed is non drivers don't realize they are basically invisible at night and the headlights they see do nothing to make them visible in enough time for the driver to react. I was a dumb kid that played chicken with cars at night. It wasn't until I started driving a car I realized just how invisible I really was.



Also, ABS brakes don't leave skid marks, They leave a little chirp but is difficult to find especially by the untrained. Obviously the media grabs ahold of misinformation and runs with it.



Are Tire Marks Still Useful with ABS Systems? - CED BLOG

The question becomes, “If there is no wheel lock up and therefore no skidding, how can the accident reconstructionist/investigator determine the speed lost by the vehicle during emergency/panic braking?” Vehicles equipped with ABS brakes will in fact leave faint tire marks on the roadway when the ABS system is activated. A trained accident reconstructionist/investigator can actually visualize, measure and document ABS tire marks. However, these marks are highly perishable and can become undetectable in a very short time on a heavily traveled roadway. This short time frame is measured in hours or minutes as opposed to days and weeks for locked-wheel skid marks.

Great points about ABS brakes. The electronic “brain” in every modern automobile will document speed, brake activation, and note the stop point based on this. It is a very valid point about not leaving skid marks or that they are faint. I will be participating in a ZERO TEEN FATALITIES program this weekend and ask the question about ABS and skid computation. The program is put on by Nevada Department of Transportation, Nevada Highway Patrol, the Zero Teen Fatalities program and the non-profit DriversEdge.org (drivers training for new drivers under age 21).

Anyone in Las Vegas is welcome to come out to the Las Vegas Motor Speedway and witness the program. This is a special event where young drivers and parents go head-to-head in a closed course for bragging rights as to who is better. Typically the teens do far better in the agility parts of the course but parents excelled in areas where experience plays a role (backing, parking, etc). The bottom line is we are getting better drivers. Our program participants have a 58% reduction in collision rates and, coupled with a wide variety of training programs for new drivers, Nevada has seen a reduction in teen fatal collisions (34 in 2014 and 22 in 2017)*.

*NOTE: The numbers quoted are from memory and may be off by one or two. I will get the correct numbers this weekend and update my statistics.

ANYONE with kids, grandchildren, knows a young driver, should investigate the ZERO TEEN FATALITIES program. They do exceptional work and are Nation Wide. The DRIVEREFGE.ORG program is primarily in Nevada but was selected by CNN last year as one of their HERO programs.

SAFE DRIVING to everyone,

MrB1LL
WWW. DRIVERSEDGE.ORG Administration

[aether_one]

Originally Posted by Oderus

Odd that you would hold 2 different standards when it comes to human vs. autonomous drivers. So if the driver was human, it's the pedestrians fault but it's automated, it's the cars fault? I don't follow that logic.

I'm a huge fan of personal responsibility. I didn't grow up entitled thinking the world owes me everything. I work for everything and part of work comes responsibility. That pedestrian crossed a road where it was dark and not controlled like at an intersection. She was also walking her bike so she chose to cross in a dangerous spot. It's her fault people, not the autonomous car.

While I agree some form of technology would help, you can't rely on technology to account for stupid people.

Why is it odd? The human driver has certain capabilities; the automatic car is supposed to have capabilities that exceed the human capabilities to enable it to sense obstacles where the human can't. I would expect the car's capabilities to work and have prevented that accident whereas the human driver would not have been able to. Sure, the pedestrian is at fault in either case, but in any accident; if you have the ability to avoid the collision and fail to do so, even though you may have the right of way, you will still be held partially responsible for the accident.

The take-away here is:
Why did the cars sensors fail to detect and prevent the accident.
How long had this vehicle been driving with failed sensors with no indication/warning/automatic shutdown due to the failure.

This is assuming this vehicle had enhanced sensors, which would seem to be required, but who knows for sure.

[Old-Biscuit]

Uber's cars use a combination of cameras, radar and lidar to navigate and avoid obstacles.

They 'see' in the dark......

As for skid marks......
None because no braking occurred.
Vehicle stopped after striking pedestrian and killing her.
Safety Driver didn't react until vehicle struck pedestrian......and couldn't have reacted cause she wasn't paying attention

Officials were on scene within minutes due to involvement of autonomous vehicle and death of pedestrian ----crime scene preserved.
NTSB and Hwy Investigators on scene early that AM
So IF vehicle HAD slammed on brakes they would have been able to 'document' such

Videos/on-board recorders/data from sensors---------all are available to investigators

Yes pedestrian came out of the dark..........moving from FAR left and almost getting to far right curb before being struck
Right or wrong
Sensors (Radar/Lidar) FAILED.....more testing/research/development needed
Unfortunately a person was killed to show limitations/faults/design failures

[Arch Hoagland]

So all you people who think self driving cars are great....

Will you volunteer to walk out in front of one going 35 mph?

[aether_one]

Originally Posted by Arch Hoagland

So all you people who think self driving cars are great....

Will you volunteer to walk out in front of one going 35 mph?

Haven't you seen all the new car commercials of non-autonomous cars that "stop by themselves" when someone walks out in front of them?

[Forkyfork]

My daughter flew in to visit. I get a call from the plane that they are circling the airport because the auto pilot isn't working and the pilot couldn't land without it.
There were no weather or wind concerns. Simply that the pilot or co pilot didn't know how to land by themselves.

Autonomous is not a substitute for knowing what you are doing. How did it become ok for a pilot not to know how to land/fly a plane using instruments?

[Wundertaker]

Originally Posted by Forkyfork

My daughter flew in to visit. I get a call from the plane that they are circling the airport because the auto pilot isn't working and the pilot couldn't land without it.
There were no weather or wind concerns. Simply that the pilot or co pilot didn't know how to land by themselves.

Autonomous is not a substitute for knowing what you are doing. How did it become ok for a pilot not to know how to land/fly a plane using instruments?

I rest my case...see post #79.

[baraff]

Originally Posted by timjet

For those of you who expressed their concern about flying a pilot-less airliner: When visibility goes below a certain point, FAA rules require the autopilot land the airliner, the pilots simply monitor the computers. Yes the pilots are still there to take over, but it's just a matter of time before pilots go the way of elevator operators.

Geez, I hope not. I'm reminded of the United crash in Sioux City, IA years ago when the plane lost all hydraulics due to catastrophic engine failure. The crew managed to crash land the plane by manually manipulating the engines. Even though 111 died, 185 survived.
Think a robot could do what Al Haynes and his flight crew did? I don't think so.

[WinnieView]

Investigators recreate fatal crash involving self-driving Uber vehicle

Investigators recreate fatal crash involving self-driving Uber v - Arizona's Family

[SlaterDoc]

Originally Posted by RVPioneer

You did not ask if I would fly aboard a pilotless airliner. Read your words again. Since you asked now, I would not.

I have more faith in pilots than you and I would trust them over software to handle an emergency situation..

A very good example would be Captain Sullenberger!
The computer would have tried to take the jet back to the airport. It was the pilot that put the plane safely down in the Hudson! No one seriously hurt. Let the computer take over, they would all have been dead! And, who knows how many on the ground!

[96 Softail]

Oh man.
When are you people going place responsibility where it belongs?
IF THE LADY HADN’T BEEN IN THE STREET WHERE SHE SHOULDN’T HAVE BEEN, SHE WOULD STILL BE ALIVE. Duh, CROSSWALK!
It wasn’t the car’s fault, it was the pedestrian’s fault for J-walking.
You people need to take responsibility for your actions.
Stop blaming everyone else for your screw-ups!
JEEZ

[twinboat]

Originally Posted by 96 Softail

Oh man.
When are you people going place responsibility where it belongs?
IF THE LADY HADN’T BEEN IN THE STREET WHERE SHE SHOULDN’T HAVE BEEN, SHE WOULD STILL BE ALIVE. Duh, CROSSWALK!
It wasn’t the car’s fault, it was the pedestrian’s fault for J-walking.
You people need to take responsibility for your actions.
Stop blaming everyone else for your screw-ups!
JEEZ

That was my thought.

Is there any report about the woman's condition just before she walked out in front of a moving car ?

Headlights work both ways. If I see them, I don't step in front of them.

People still get hit by trains. How can you miss a train coming ?

[timjet]

Originally Posted by Forkyfork

My daughter flew in to visit. I get a call from the plane that they are circling the airport because the auto pilot isn't working and the pilot couldn't land without it.
There were no weather or wind concerns. Simply that the pilot or co pilot didn't know how to land by themselves.

Autonomous is not a substitute for knowing what you are doing. How did it become ok for a pilot not to know how to land/fly a plane using instruments?

Your information is so outlandish I can't believe you would print such rubbish.

Originally Posted by 96 Softail

Oh man.
When are you people going place responsibility where it belongs?
IF THE LADY HADN’T BEEN IN THE STREET WHERE SHE SHOULDN’T HAVE BEEN, SHE WOULD STILL BE ALIVE. Duh, CROSSWALK!
It wasn’t the car’s fault, it was the pedestrian’s fault for J-walking.
You people need to take responsibility for your actions.
Stop blaming everyone else for your screw-ups!
JEEZ

I am an advocate of autonomous vehicles. This accident should not have happened. These computer vehicles are supposed to be better than the average human driver. This just proves more work needs to be done. We're not there yet.