Windows 8

[Arch Hoagland]

I'm running on DOS 3.1

[Mr_D]

Originally Posted by LadyFitz...

It's more than enough for Win8. Win8 is less resource intensive than Win7, Vista, or XP.

I know, that was a joke!

[scgator]

I know, that was a joke!....................actually NOT; 8 is pretty conservative as far as resources go

[LadyFitz...]

Originally Posted by scgator

.....Beg to differ; there is, but not in the traditional sense that Windows users have grown used to; we have to keep in mind that W8 is moving "us" towards tablets, and the like. If you think of it like a smartphone or tablet application, it becomes very easy to navigate...........

That is the point; not everyone wants to or can do everything on a tablet. Try opening six windows at once on a tablet and doing anything efficiently (heck, I often have six windows displayed on my 22" monitor with the trashcan on the desktop still showing and a hidden window open, playing music; I would never be able to do that with Win8). The tiny screens on a tablet will never do what one can do on a large monitor or multiple monitors. Even if one were to attatch a monitor and keyboard to a tablet, the tablet just doesn't have the power to do serious computing. Microsnot may be trying to maneuver us to tablets but the business world and other serious computer users aren't going to go there, same as when Vista came out and tried to force everyone to upgrade all their software and hardware because Vista wasn't compatable with what they had. Even Apple with their walled garden and penchant for telling users whay they should want isn't stupid enough to go that route. I don't have a problem with Microsnot wanting to make an OS light enough to work with tablets and PCs (the original goal) but crippling heavy duty users is going to blow up in their face.

[scgator]

"...trying out Windows 8 Professional this week on my laptop; so far it looks pretty good. It's too early to say if Microsoft hit the mark, but, I like the look and feel of it. A plus is integrated antivirus that is part of the operating system. It looks to me that Microsoft is finally coming around with some of the apps that make life easier for those who spend a lot of time on the computer."

In MY original post; all I was trying to do was let people know that it appears to be an improvement and is worth looking at............I AM SORRY THAT IT DOES NOT PASS ALL OF "YOUR" TESTS FOR BEING A VALID PROGRAM MISS FITZ; MAYBE YOU SHOULD DESIGN THE NEXT OPERATING SYSTEM FOR THE COMPUTER WORLD. WE WILL BE FOREVER INDEBTED.

Microsoft's plan was to have an adaptable OS that is "friendly" to both the PC and the tablet world. This they have done, and it looks like they have done it well........in spite of those who cry....."it's not the way I would do it; so it must be totally useless"

The point is that the tablet was not designed to be a "do all" tool for those who are into computer intensive tasks........it was designed as a portable and casual device for those who need such. It has NEVER been advertised as a desktop replacement system. I build websites, but would never dream of attempting it on a tablet; it is the wrong tool for the application.

Microsoft's intent is to make the tablet a more powerful and useful tool........not a replacement for the desktop work station.

[LadyFitz...]

Originally Posted by scgator

...I AM SORRY THAT IT DOES NOT PASS ALL OF "YOUR" TESTS FOR BEING A VALID PROGRAM MISS FITZ; MAYBE YOU SHOULD DESIGN THE NEXT OPERATING SYSTEM FOR THE COMPUTER WORLD. WE WILL BE FOREVER INDEBTED. ...

There is no need to be a smart aleck about it!

Originally Posted by scgator

...Microsoft's plan was to have an adaptable OS that is "friendly" to both the PC and the tablet world. This they have done, and it looks like they have done it well........in spite of those who cry....."it's not the way I would do it; so it must be totally useless"...

I never said Win8 is totally useless. What I have been saying is Microsnot has fallen short of the plan to make an OS that is friendly to both PC and tablet users. For anyone other than casual computer users and tablet users, Win8 is too restrictive. Win 8 will be great for tablets and for PC users who just email and web search but Win7, and even XP, will still be superior for serious users, such as businesses and people who use their PCs for home theaters as well as other computing, including photo processing, word processing, desktop publishing, etc. There is no way I would be able to my music notation work on a tiny tablet.

Originally Posted by scgator

...The point is that the tablet was not designed to be a "do all" tool for those who are into computer intensive tasks........it was designed as a portable and casual device for those who need such...

That is what I have been saying.

Originally Posted by scgator

...It has NEVER been advertised as a desktop replacement system. I build websites, but would never dream of attempting it on a tablet; it is the wrong tool for the application...

The advertising I've been seeing has strongly suggested Win8 is planned as a replacement for Win7.

Originally Posted by scgator

...Microsoft's intent is to make the tablet a more powerful and useful tool........not a replacement for the desktop work station.

That is not the impression I have been receiving. What I've been reading is Microsnot's intent is to have an OS that is compatible with both PCs and tablets so users of both will not have to learn how to use two different systems. Unfortunately, the approach Microsnot took was to hamstring any function that cannot easily used on a tablet.

[Ramblin]

I am a power user, and a touch typist, and have increasingly poor vision as I grow older. A tablet, in its current form at least, will never be a functional PC for me. I run Linux on a quad core processor, I have a real keyboard, and a real mouse, and 2 24" widescreen monitors, whose real estate is completely filled with the things I need to function in my job.

I will never run a closed source operating system. There is nothing that Microsoft or Apple will do for MY needs that cannot be done better, faster, and more securely under Linux, which is free. Linux is not for everyone, but is superior in almost every way for power users.

The current Microsoft model for most casual users is this:

1) Buy a new Windows PC.
2) Connect it to the internet.
3) Contract so much malware it will no longer run.
4) Pay for cleanup services and/or programs.
5) Give up trying to clean it, and buy a new PC.
6) Go to step 1, repeat ad nauseum.

[MRBB]

Originally Posted by Ray,IN

I have already decided I will not get another computer and run Windows. When Microsoft ends support for XP I will either install Linux or buy an Apple computer.

2X. I'm still using XP on my 4 office computers and 3 laptops. The wife has Win7 and I hate it. It treats you like you are a child and as a programmer it makes it tough to get to files and customize it. I can see Linux in my future.

[Ramblin]

Originally Posted by MRBB

2X. I'm still using XP on my 4 office computers and 3 laptops. The wife has Win7 and I hate it. It treats you like you are a child and as a programmer it makes it tough to get to files and customize it. I can see Linux in my future.

Give it a try. Ubuntu Linux will allow you to create a bootable CD, and try it out on YOUR hardware without modifying anything on your system. Just boot it and run it from the CD. If you like it, but want to keep XP available, you can load it along side of Windows XP, and have a dual-boot system.

[LadyFitz...]

Originally Posted by Ramblin

I am a power user, and a touch typist, and have increasingly poor vision as I grow older. A tablet, in its current form at least, will never be a functional PC for me. I run Linux on a quad core processor, I have a real keyboard, and a real mouse, and 2 24" widescreen monitors, whose real estate is completely filled with the things I need to function in my job...

I know what you mean. I also let my computer run 24/7 (I reboot every few days to clear up any problems that might creep in) since I'm frequently in and out of it. Tablets and even laptops can't handle that kind of abuse.

Originally Posted by Ramblin

...I will never run a closed source operating system. There is nothing that Microsoft or Apple will do for MY needs that cannot be done better, faster, and more securely under Linux, which is free. Linux is not for everyone, but is superior in almost every way for power users.

The current Microsoft model for most casual users is this:

1) Buy a new Windows PC.
2) Connect it to the internet.
3) Contract so much malware it will no longer run.
4) Pay for cleanup services and/or programs.
5) Give up trying to clean it, and buy a new PC.
6) Go to step 1, repeat ad nauseum.

LOL! Actually, it's not all that grim. If one uses the right software (it can be free if one doesn't mind using it manually), malware won't be that big of an issue, if at all (I don't have problems). Simply reinstalling a OS will also clean up a computer nicely. Eventually, Apple and Linux users will have just as much trouble with malware as MS users as their OSs become more popular, making them more attractive to the malware hackers. My issue wih Linux is much of the software I use is either incompatible with Linux or one has to jump through hoops to get it to work. I also need to be compatible with other users who use MS and Apple.

[Ramblin]

Originally Posted by LadyFitz...

I know what you mean. I also let my computer run 24/7 (I reboot every few days to clear up any problems that might creep in) since I'm frequently in and out of it. Tablets and even laptops can't handle that kind of abuse.

I have a linux server that has been up 647 days. No need to reboot to keep linux happy.

Originally Posted by LadyFitz...

LOL! Actually, it's not all that grim. If one uses the right software (it can be free if one doesn't mind using it manually), malware won't be that big of an issue, if at all (I don't have problems). Simply reinstalling a OS will also clean up a computer nicely.

Casual users have no idea what is dangerous and what is not. They have no concept of virus/malware scanning. There are more malware programs that masquerade as virus scanners than there are actual virus scanners. How is my 88yo mom supposed to know the difference? She just wants it to work, and to protect her from the bad guys. Microsoft has done a horrible job of that, which is especially egregious because they alone have the ability to solve the malware problem but choose not to. In a way, malware is a part of their business model.

Originally Posted by LadyFitz...

Eventually, Apple and Linux users will have just as much trouble with malware as MS users as their OSs become more popular, making them more attractive to the malware hackers.

I respectfully disagree. Linux is (and has been for many years) the predominant OS on the internet with regards to web, mail, and other internet services. There are more linux systems exposed directly to the open internet than any other OS. (by 'exposed' I mean with open ports designed for unrestricted public access) This is a target rich environment for malware writers, and yet malware for linux is almost nonexistant.

This is because of the nature of the operating system. Normal users on a linux system cannot access core OS files, and therefore malware cannot embed itself. Microsoft could do this too, but doesn't.

An interesting side note: www.iRV2.com has been running on a linux server for the last 12 years.

Originally Posted by LadyFitz...

My issue wih Linux is much of the software I use is either incompatible with Linux or one has to jump through hoops to get it to work. I also need to be compatible with other users who use MS and Apple.

I run OfficeXP under Linux. All I had to do was install it. I also run XP, and several other operating systems in virtual machines under linux (using the free and awesome VirtualBox).

I really, really don't want this to devolve into a Linux vs Mac Vs Windows argument. There are strengths and weaknesses to all of them, and people like what they know (and a few know what they like). I have to support them all. I choose Linux because it gives me the best of all of them.

[scgator]

"3) Contract so much malware it will no longer run.
4) Pay for cleanup services and/or programs.
5) Give up trying to clean it, and buy a new PC"..................

the problem, really is not Microsoft; I routinely, clean up systems for people with maleware, viruses, and the like. I always tell them if you will keep your system updated, and keep the cleaner programs up to date, issues will be minor at the most. My computers are on 24/7 and I do not suffer from poor performance or viruses; it is because I regularly clean the system. It takes less than five minutes, so it is no real chore. Any time I have had customers complaining about their system getting re-infected or full of "junk", they will admit that it is because they were not doing the things necessary to keep it clean. Another big factor is "not going certain places" on the web.

Way too many have assumed that because you run Windows, you will ALWAYS have issues; and that is not the case.

BTW: I have to agree about Ubuntu linux; I also use it, and it is a great program. I currently run it on a dual boot system Windows 7 Pro / Ubuntu.

[Ramblin]

Originally Posted by scgator

"3) Contract so much malware it will no longer run.
4) Pay for cleanup services and/or programs.
5) Give up trying to clean it, and buy a new PC"..................

the problem, really is not Microsoft;

There is no where else to lay the blame. They know how these bugs work, they know how the bugs get in, and they know how the bugs embed them selves deeply in the OS. They could take measures to elimnate the problem, yet they don't. I don't really blame the malware guys for doing what they do. I blame Microsoft for not stopping them, because ultimately Microsoft is the only one who can fix the leaky drain. Everything else is just a bucket and a mop.

Originally Posted by scgator

I routinely, clean up systems for people with maleware, viruses, and the like. I always tell them if you will keep your system updated, and keep the cleaner programs up to date, issues will be minor at the most. My computers are on 24/7 and I do not suffer from poor performance or viruses; it is because I regularly clean the system. It takes less than five minutes, so it is no real chore. Any time I have had customers complaining about their system getting re-infected or full of "junk", they will admit that it is because they were not doing the things necessary to keep it clean. Another big factor is "not going certain places" on the web.

Me too. All good advice above. I do not run virus scanners or anti-malware on *my* Windows boxes, because I have taken other measures to protect them from infection. They run 24/7 and have had no problems. Windows boxes that I manage for others ALL have these programs, because I know the end users don't understand when they are being attacked, until its already too late.

One measure that you didn't mention that I always do is for people to never use ADMINISTRATOR level user accounts on Windows boxes, except for when they are performing ADMINISTRATOR tasks (installing software, updates, etc) Admin level access is rarely necessary for every day tasks, and malware has a much tougher time embedding itself deeply into the OS if it does not have admin rights.

Originally Posted by scgator

Way too many have assumed that because you run Windows, you will ALWAYS have issues; and that is not the case.

99% of the people I know who run Windows have problems. You're right, they don't have to, but most people don't know what they need to do to be safe, and navigating the mine field of anti-malware offerings on the internet is treacherous for the uninitiated. They shouldn't have to think about it, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by scgator

BTW: I have to agree about Ubuntu linux; I also use it, and it is a great program. I currently run it on a dual boot system Windows 7 Pro / Ubuntu.

I run Windows 7 Pro in a window UNDER Ubuntu, using Virtualbox. Boots in 5 seconds, and backing up the entire Windows7 system is simple as copying a single file.

[scgator]

Holding Microsoft responsible for "our" bad habits is erroneous; I understand that many feel that Microsoft could or should do more; but, in my 22+ years of experience, I have found that computers get infected in one of two ways...........1-consumers do not keep it updated (programming or security); and 2-they voluntarily open a "door" by selecting unscrupulous sites and / or emails that catch their eye ( they go where they want to go, thus suffer the results). You can have all of the locks in the world, but if you unlock the door and let the thief in......it's your fault, not the lock makers.

While there are other OS's that do not get as much junk, when it becomes profitable for the "virus writers", then they too will be infiltrated.

Ramblin...thanks for your post; I ALWAYS when returning a system to its owner, "walk" them through the steps to keep it clean and make sure that they know what they are doing. Yet, many will still not do the things that keep them safe. It is a human issue, and not a software issue. In fact, I am scheduled to teach a class on INTERNET SECURITY for a civic group next month, and this is exactly the area that I will be covering.