Community Forums

Bilito · 10-31-2012, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave78Chief

Bilito,
First one problem at a time.
If the cable from the coach battery B+ terminal and the cable on the "output" side of the coach solinoid (the right hand one) BOTH go to the same side of the generator relay then they are shorting out the coach solinoid. Same thing as placing a jumper cable across the posts of the solinoid to short across it. The output cable of the coach solinoid (right side cable of righthand disconnect solinoid) should go directly to the coach 12VDC power center. It should not go to the generator. If you want to know whats going on, you will have to trace that cable AND the 2nd cable at the generator to their source.

Panel buzzing - Is that the new ATS-301 switch panel you are reffering to (the new one you installed)? Selects between shore power cable and generator supply to the coach.

Dave

OK Dave
We finally got under there and traced both of those black battery wires inch by inch until we came to the Gen Start Solenoid and yes they both go there.
They are routed differently,

The one connected to the battery itself goes down the frame rail directly to the gen start solenoid.

The one on the side of the coach battery dis-connect solenoid is routed directly into a big wire bundle behind the battery and runs down the side of the RV until past the front tire then it works it's way to the frame rail and goes toward the rear of the coach, as it passes abeam the Gen, the battery wire comes out of the bundle and goes to the start solenoid.

I am thinking that a PO ran that second cable for reasons unknown, (I'm the third owner). That second cable has to be an aftermarket thing because it just loosly runns down the frame rail with a loose tie wrap here and there to keep it from falling off, a poor job of installation

The smaller black wire coming from the side of the coach battery disconnect runs over to a fuse block, also in the front, not too far from the batteries, I have no idea what those fuses control, but they are all OK, do not know what those three little box things are the wires run to

I am thinking to just remove that extra battery wire, I see no reason to have it in there when I have a battery wire running thru a disconnect to the gen start solenoid.

Dave78Chief · 10-31-2012, 06:14 PM

The 3 box things are self resetting circuit breakers (12 Volt Circuit Breaker - Auto Reset).

You want to keep the largest of the 2 cables feeding the generator so you have the least voltage drop. Not unusual for the generator feed to tap off of the coach disconnect solinoid.

When the temps are warmer, I would try to isolate those fuses by turning things on then pulling a fuse to see what is turned off.

Dave78Chief · 10-31-2012, 06:33 PM

Intellitek Battery Isolator Controller Manual - http://www.flemingsalesoem.com/intel...322019.100.pdf. Used to control the isolator relay to allow the engine alternator to charge the coach battery when driving. The wiring diagram I provided you shows a Bi-Directional Relay Controller (BIRD). While the unit you have only allows charging the coach battery via the engine alternator, the BIRD controller performs that function AND allows the 12VDC converter to charge the chassis battery when on shore power or generator. Both controllers control the isolator relay to cross connect the to battery banks.

Resistor part #75234 - Most likely a 12VDC load resistor for the generator DC charge circuit however I would have to do some research to confirm that.

Quote:

read in my manual that once the gen starts it take a few minutes for something to stabilize before it goes online, I'm a little fuzzy about that, here is what it says " Units with automatic switchover power converters will normally require up to 3 min to switch over before current is supplied to 115v outlets"

A generator has to warm up and stabilize BEFORE you switch over to it. The 3 minute delay allows the generator to warm up before it is used to supply the 110VAC system. If you load a generator down to soon it can stumble and shut down.

Dave

Bilito · 10-31-2012, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave78Chief

The 3 box things are self resetting circuit breakers (12 Volt Circuit Breaker - Auto Reset).

You want to keep the largest of the 2 cables feeding the generator so you have the least voltage drop. Not unusual for the generator feed to tap off of the coach disconnect solinoid.

When the temps are warmer, I would try to isolate those fuses by turning things on then pulling a fuse to see what is turned off.

I could just move the battery cable and connect it with the solenoid cable, that way they are both on the disconnect.

Good idea with the fuses, once I know what they do I could make a label for them

Bilito · 11-02-2012, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave78Chief

Intellitek Battery Isolator Controller Manual - http://www.flemingsalesoem.com/intel...322019.100.pdf. Used to control the isolator relay to allow the engine alternator to charge the coach battery when driving. The wiring diagram I provided you shows a Bi-Directional Relay Controller (BIRD). While the unit you have only allows charging the coach battery via the engine alternator, the BIRD controller performs that function AND allows the 12VDC converter to charge the chassis battery when on shore power or generator. Both controllers control the isolator relay to cross connect the to battery banks.

Resistor part #75234 - Most likely a 12VDC load resistor for the generator DC charge circuit however I would have to do some research to confirm that.

A generator has to warm up and stabilize BEFORE you switch over to it. The 3 minute delay allows the generator to warm up before it is used to supply the 110VAC system. If you load a generator down to soon it can stumble and shut down.

Dave

Just got back to looking at the RV this morning again.
I started the gen from inside, I did not have the external power plugged in and nothing was running, all I did was turn the Coach battery on and start the gen. It fired off and ran for about 2-3 min and then suddenly that LOUD BUZZING started again, I ran back and yes it was coming from the electric panel under the bed, so I ran back up front and shut the gen off and the Buzzing stopped.

Here is everything I have done
I respliced all four remote control gen start/stop wires
I have disconnected that extra battery wire from the battery direct to the gen start solenoid,

I removed and cleaned the two heavy ground wires from the gen platform, one to the frame rail and the other to the Engine tranny. I actually removed them from the RV, cleaned the wires with a degreaser and buffed up both ends of each wire on my bench grinder wire wheel until they shone like new. I cleaned the part they connect to with sand paper and a small dremel wire wheel until I was at shiny clean bare metal. These are heavy 4 ga wires

Every connection I made was with a very thin coating of di-electric grease. something I picked up from working on boats. It is supposed to help with a better bond and also protect from moisture, rust and corrosion. I even put a small dad on the ends of each wire going into a crimp on butt splice and I use all marine shrink connectors

Re That resitor, when I first got into this issue I found that bottom plug to that resitor was unplugged and I plugged it back in, and I have since unplugged it again. You suggest that resitor is DC and I suspect that buzzing is AC

There is another flat braided Bonding/ground wire from the gen to the gen platform which I have not removed and cleaned yet and also the ground wire up front from the coach batteriers to the frame, I plan to remove and clean all the ground connection I can find

pic #1 ground/bond connection for both wires at the Gen Platform
pic #2 ground/bond connection to the frame rail
I did not take a pic of the tranny connection

One thing I was taught while in the USAF Jet mechanics school was almost all electrical issues start with a less then perfect ground

Dave78Chief · 11-02-2012, 08:22 PM

The buzzng sound 2-3 minutes after the generator starts points to the ATS switch you installed on the rear of the AC breaker panel. Sounds like you need to open things up around the bed so you can see clearly around the AC breaker Panel / ATS Switch. You are trying to locate which device the buzzing is coming from. The circuit board in the ATS switch detects the presence of generator power, delays 2 to 3 minutes then energizes the ATS relay to select the generator as the power source. It uses the AC power from the generator as it's power source to do all this. BTW, is this first time you have been able to check the operation of the ATS switch using the generator as the power source?

Dave

Bilito · 11-03-2012, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave78Chief

The buzzng sound 2-3 minutes after the generator starts points to the ATS switch you installed on the rear of the AC breaker panel. Sounds like you need to open things up around the bed so you can see clearly around the AC breaker Panel / ATS Switch. You are trying to locate which device the buzzing is coming from. The circuit board in the ATS switch detects the presence of generator power, delays 2 to 3 minutes then energizes the ATS relay to select the generator as the power source. It uses the AC power from the generator as it's power source to do all this. BTW, is this first time you have been able to check the operation of the ATS switch using the generator as the power source?

Dave

We have run it many times since I installed that ATS switch and all we had was a very low humming emiting from the box. After I re-spliced the remote control wires and plugged that connection onto the resister it started to BUZZ real loud. The BUZZING is a new thing. I tried disconnecting the wire from that resister and it still BUZZ'S

wickedrevs 56 · 11-15-2012, 08:08 PM

Try running the Ginny again, be sure your shore line is unplugged!!! Then flip the main breaker (30 amp) to "off", still buzzing??? If it is I would suspect the transfer switch. Make sure your hot 1 and hot 2 are correct places in transfer switch...

Bilito · 11-16-2012, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wickedrevs 56

Try running the Ginny again, be sure your shore line is unplugged!!! Then flip the main breaker (30 amp) to "off", still buzzing??? If it is I would suspect the transfer switch. Make sure your hot 1 and hot 2 are correct places in transfer switch...

Good Idea, but I ran into another issue before I can try that, I will start another topic under circuit breaker change

Bilito · 11-20-2012, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wickedrevs 56

Try running the Ginny again, be sure your shore line is unplugged!!! Then flip the main breaker (30 amp) to "off", still buzzing??? If it is I would suspect the transfer switch. Make sure your hot 1 and hot 2 are correct places in transfer switch...

This morning after I made my own generator breaker adapters I finally installed the new breakers. I started the gen and sure enought after a few minutes I got that loud buzzing again. So I turned on one ac unit, no problem, turned the other one on and still no problem but I could still hear the loud buzzing, then suddenly it stopped and about 30 seconds or so later it started again, it made a loud click and the buzzing stopped and then another click and the buzzing started, I turned off the ac units one at a time and the buzzing would go on and off every now and then accompanied by a click
I turned the main breaker on the panel off, it stopped, turn it back on and it would start again. After I had installed the new transfer switch and cooling fan last summer it always had a soft hum and I could hear the fan running when it turned on. This buzzing is something new.
BTW this electric panel unit has the built in battery charger, don't know if that matters of not, just thought I would mention it.

Bilito · 11-20-2012, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilito

This morning after I made my own generator breaker adapters I finally installed the new breakers. I started the gen and sure enought after a few minutes I got that loud buzzing again. So I turned on one ac unit, no problem, turned the other one on and still no problem but I could still hear the loud buzzing, then suddenly it stopped and about 30 seconds or so later it started again, it made a loud click and the buzzing stopped and then another click and the buzzing started, I turned off the ac units one at a time and the buzzing would go on and off every now and then accompanied by a click
I turned the main breaker on the panel off, it stopped, turn it back on and it would start again. After I had installed the new transfer switch and cooling fan last summer it always had a soft hum and I could hear the fan running when it turned on. This buzzing is something new.
BTW this electric panel unit has the built in battery charger, don't know if that matters of not, just thought I would mention it.

Here is the new Blue Sea Breakers, I paid 15.98 each with free shipping compared the 48.00 each plus shipping from Generac. The second pic is the old breakers

Dave78Chief · 11-21-2012, 04:08 PM

Bilito,
Good job on the breaker replacement. You are going to need to determine if the buzzing is from the new ATS switch or the converter. Have you unplugged the shore power cord then tried staarting the generator to see if the buzzing is still there. Not sure if you understood that is what wickedrevs 56 meant by shutting the main breaker off. If the buzzing is not there with shore power disconnected to the ATS switch (only generator power to ATS switch), then that points to the ATS switch or the wiring connection to it.

Dave