LPG installation for 454 Vortec V8 2000

[Ruediger]

Greetings from Germany,


I recently bought a Condor 1320 Class A and shipped it to Germany. Very happy with it. In Europe, it´s pretty common installing LPG for reducing fuel costs. Simply burning Butane/ Octane instead of gasoline. My question: Besides many advantages (e.g. cleaner combustion), the temperature itself is higher due to the missing cooling effect of gasoline. Outlet valves could be affected mid-term. Does the Chevy vortec V8 from 2000 equipped with hardened valves seats? Does anybody has specifics about the seats itself?


By the way: A great and very helpful forum. Learned already a lot. And hope to share my collected knowledge in the future. Then inspiring more Europeans buying what is a real! motorhome.



Rüdiger

[Skip426]

Welcome to iRV2.

When I was doing LPG conversions, the engines designed for unleaded fuel usually had hardened valves and seats.
Leaded fuel engines that had been run for many miles with leaded fuel The valves and seats were hardened through use.
I can’t be 100% certain on the 2000 Vortec engine , but I’m thinking they’re hardened.

One has to look closely at the conversion cost , and the time to recover the $$$ verses the price difference in fuel . Many times in discussions with customers the time frame for break even was over five years and not worth the cost.
Take your fuel mileage on gas , reduce by 20% for propane , then your miles driven per year, divide to figure your cost per mile on both fuel types.
JMHO, if you calculate and find the recovery time is longer than five years, the conversion isn’t worth it. How long you intend to keep the unit is also a factor.

[EyezOpen]

Originally Posted by Ruediger

Greetings from Germany,


I recently bought a Condor 1320 Class A and shipped it to Germany. Very happy with it. In Europe, it´s pretty common installing LPG for reducing fuel costs. Simply burning Butane/ Octane instead of gasoline. My question: Besides many advantages (e.g. cleaner combustion), the temperature itself is higher due to the missing cooling effect of gasoline. Outlet valves could be affected mid-term. Does the Chevy vortec V8 from 2000 equipped with hardened valves seats? Does anybody has specifics about the seats itself?


By the way: A great and very helpful forum. Learned already a lot. And hope to share my collected knowledge in the future. Then inspiring more Europeans buying what is a real! motorhome.



Rüdiger

The answer is yes,GM used induction hardening on those vortec seats. How much modification do you intend to do? That engine is setup for MPI meaning you will have to change the intake and ecm timing.

There could be a lot of improvements if the budget and thought is open. This engine is a 454 or 5.7? or a 8100...in 2001 gm released a 8100 that was truck spefic.

[EyezOpen]

Originally Posted by Skip426

Welcome to iRV2.

When I was doing LPG conversions, the engines designed for unleaded fuel usually had hardened valves and seats.
Leaded fuel engines that had been run for many miles with leaded fuel The valves and seats were hardened through use.
I can’t be 100% certain on the 2000 Vortec engine , but I’m thinking they’re hardened.

One has to look closely at the conversion cost , and the time to recover the $$$ verses the price difference in fuel . Many times in discussions with customers the time frame for break even was over five years and not worth the cost.
Take your fuel mileage on gas , reduce by 20% for propane , then your miles driven per year, divide to figure your cost per mile on both fuel types.
JMHO, if you calculate and find the recovery time is longer than five years, the conversion isn’t worth it. How long you intend to keep the unit is also a factor.

Never foreget the EU pays aorund 5/7 dollars a gallon for gas if not more.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...und-the-world/

[Ruediger]

Originally Posted by Skip426

Welcome to iRV2.

When I was doing LPG conversions, the engines designed for unleaded fuel usually had hardened valves and seats.
Leaded fuel engines that had been run for many miles with leaded fuel The valves and seats were hardened through use.
I can’t be 100% certain on the 2000 Vortec engine , but I’m thinking they’re hardened.

One has to look closely at the conversion cost , and the time to recover the $$$ verses the price difference in fuel . Many times in discussions with customers the time frame for break even was over five years and not worth the cost.
Take your fuel mileage on gas , reduce by 20% for propane , then your miles driven per year, divide to figure your cost per mile on both fuel types.
JMHO, if you calculate and find the recovery time is longer than five years, the conversion isn’t worth it. How long you intend to keep the unit is also a factor.

We are already close the 7 $/ gallon now. And thats because the barrel stands at 40$. So, further room for improvement expected. Lpg less then half of it. Means, I do expect being financially out of the woods with my update before the second year is finished.

[Ruediger]

Originally Posted by EyezOpen

Never foreget the EU pays aorund 5/7 dollars a gallon for gas if not more.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...und-the-world/

As you say - close to 7. For now.

[Ruediger]

Originally Posted by EyezOpen

The answer is yes,GM used induction hardening on those vortec seats. How much modification do you intend to do? That engine is setup for MPI meaning you will have to change the intake and ecm timing.

There could be a lot of improvements if the budget and thought is open. This engine is a 454 or 5.7? or a 8100...in 2001 gm released a 8100 that was truck spefic.

Its a 454/ 7.4 liters. Last model year. Its MPI, right? I spent a couple of weeks with the chassis and all needed adjustments making it "streeworthy" on European roads. And run a full service with fluids and belts before shipping. That´s why I´m not in all details with the engine. For now.

I plan to install a Prins/ comparable MPI installation.

Budget and thought open - love this vehicle. And plan to keep it for longer.

[W5CI]

My main question would be where is the OP going to install the propane tank that is large enough to satisfy the 454 gas hog

[Ruediger]

Originally Posted by W5CI

My main question would be where is the OP going to install the propane tank that is large enough to satisfy the 454 gas hog

The largest available locally is up to 200 liters. Also possible to add a second if needed. But not my plan.
I thought about putting it directly on the ladder frame. Next to already installed propane tank for fridge/ other installments.
I plan to visit the selected garage by end of this week and will return with the specialists comments right here.

[EyezOpen]

Originally Posted by Ruediger

Its a 454/ 7.4 liters. Last model year. Its MPI, right? I spent a couple of weeks with the chassis and all needed adjustments making it "streeworthy" on European roads. And run a full service with fluids and belts before shipping. That´s why I´m not in all details with the engine. For now.

I plan to install a Prins/ comparable MPI installation.

Budget and thought open - love this vehicle. And plan to keep it for longer.

Sounds like a fascinating project, will the gas be in a propane form? Building a gas engine optimized for propane would be very interesting. Are there environmental regs/standards over there?

Do you have a machinist? It is always interesting to watch what's done with engines in the EU, some of the marine engines ive seen built and the thought processes are incredible.

[Ruediger]

A quick update from the LPG challenge. My order for the installation placed. As it look like - not really complicated. We will take a Landi-Renzo installation. Italian producer. The most challenging thing is finding a good spot for the tank itself. With the Condor, I will place it at the rear bottom close to the hitch. Around 120 liters LPG. Below my expectation but in accordance with local regulations. The technical instalment a MPI/ multi-point injection. They drill a hole for each cylinder. I will post a bunch of pictures when I take the RV back at the beginning of December.

[EyezOpen]

This will be interesting, you mentioned drilling a hole in each cylinder, does that mean direct injection? Now that would be something a DI propane engine.

[Ruediger]

Originally Posted by EyezOpen

This will be interesting, you mentioned drilling a hole in each cylinder, does that mean direct injection? Now that would be something a DI propane engine.

True. Due to the dimensions, the specialist drilled 8 holes as you can see. And connected teflon hoses bridging the distance from the valve cap outside close to the intake valves. I was a bit reluctant. But after a 100 Miles testdrive, I´m convinced. Running like a kitten.

[Ruediger]

For the full-picture right here: I paid 2400 €/ at today exchange rate around 2900 Dollar all-in (of-VAT). My break-even after roughly 9000 miles. At today´s gasoline prices. Which are rock-bottom due to the low crude price.