Nova Scotia RV Parking Ban Survey

[Stan Birch]

A message from Andrew Corwall, requesting RVer participation in survey he is undertaking with regard to the Nova Scotia RV parking ban. Hope everyone will take a few minutes to assist him in collecting data:


Hello RVers,

I am sending this request to several RV groups. I apologize for the cross-posting, but I want to communicate to as many RVers as possible. Please feel free to forward this message to other RVers.

I am asking for your help by taking an on-line survey as part of a voluntary study I am doing on the effect on RV tourism of the overnight parking ban in Nova Scotia. The survey is anonymous; your e-mail address is not collected. The survey will take you no more than a few minutes to fill-in. I am not conducting the survey nor doing the study for my commercial gain, but the results could benefit RVers generally - and not just those intending to visit Nova Scotia.

I need your survey response to determine the extent that your decision to travel (in your RV) to a jurisdiction in the United
States or Canada would be influenced by a prohibition against staying overnight anywhere except in designated for-fee campgrounds (such as now occurs in Nova Scotia). It is evident from Internet group discussions that there is a wide range of perspectives among RVers on the legitimacy of staying overnight in parking lots, truck stops, etc. (often focused on staying overnight in Wal-Mart parking lots). The survey is designed to capture this range of positions, and your viewpoints are important to the study, whether you agree with the practice, disagree, or are ambivalent. Also, your opinions are important even if you have no intention of coming to Nova Scotia. When the study is completed it might be used by other jurisdictions when deciding if they should impose restrictions on where RVers may stay overnight.

In the case of Nova Scotia there is a Province-wide ban on you, as a member of the traveling or vacationing public, from staying overnight in your RV anywhere except in a licensed private campground or a Provincial / Federal campground. The prohibition is in force regardless of unsafe driving conditions, vehicle breakdown, or personal emergency; or even when campgrounds are full, not in the vicinity, or closed for the season. The ban also prohibits staying overnight in a truck stop. In order to convince the Nova Scotia Government of the various detrimental consequences of the RV overnight parking ban I have volunteered to conduct a publishable study of its impacts on the RV traveling public and the provincial economy. The ban here is obviously a peril to RVers, but if it deters RVers from coming to Nova Scotia, it also hurts RV tourism business and the wider provincial economy. Indeed the policy may injure the private campground operators that it is intended to shield.

The Nova Scotia Department of Tourism, Culture and Heritage has been helpful in providing me with information regarding the scope and enforcement of the ban, campground licensing requirements, and data on RV tourism in the Province. Further, I have received input from RVing organizations on growth trends in RV activity, statistical data on their memberships' staying overnight in parking lots, and recommended etiquette for RVers to follow when overnighting in parking lots. I am asking for your help by answering my survey.

The survey can be accessed at:

www.geocities.com/cornwaab
or
www.geocities.com/cornwaab/survey_form_40.html

Thank you.

--- Andrew Cornwall

[Little Kopit]

Stan,

We've had this debate before. Now, I'm overhere, too.

I always see to have to remind you that there are other campgrounds than the private cgs in NS. I really like provincial campgrounds in NS. I found Cape Breton Highlands National Park Campgrounds too squish. I have not been to Keji....

As always, some win a political point, but they are never 100%.

IMHO you forget these things and seem to want paint the entire province black, all the historical exhibits, all the local town efforts. Also, IMHO Walmart has been rather in your face with it's marketing of 'park here'.

These things tend to have their turn arounds. The world has not come to an end. There is lots of crown land in NS, more than in PEI. You can bet your very own bottom $ NS residents, hunters, fisher's etc. manage to boondock where they won't get fined.

Chill out, s.v.p.

[Stan Birch]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Little Kopit:
Stan,

We've had this debate before. Now, I'm overhere, too.

I always see to have to remind you that there are other campgrounds than the private cgs in NS. I really like provincial campgrounds in NS. I found Cape Breton Highlands National Park Campgrounds too squish. I have not been to Keji....

Chill out, s.v.p. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm not debating anything . . . just passing on a message from Andrew Cornwall, which might be of interest to at least some participants here.

I no longer really care about what goes on in Nova Scotia; and in fact am grateful for their anti-RV stance, since we've now enjoyed two great trips to British Columbia instead of the East Coast since all this nonsense started.

While Nova Scotia might have wonderful Provincial Parks, we also have wonderful Provincial Parks in Ontario. So why drive some 4,000 km round trip to stay in a Provincial Park in Nova Scotia, when I can do the same thing right here in Ontario without all the driving?

Let's face it; one park in a forest looks pretty much like all the rest; and we soon weary of staring at trees all day.

When we are *travelling*, we like to stay in the cities and enjoy what they have to offer. In Nova Scotia, for instance, our favourite evening hangout is the Halifax waterfront, where stuff like the International Tattoo, restaurants, pubs and entertainment are all within a 5 minute walk from the waterfront parking lot. And after an evening on the town, it might not always be a prudent idea to be driving back out of town to some remote campground. :-)

So if I can no longer do the kind of things I used to enjoy doing in Halifax, que sera. There are lots of other interesting places in North America to visit, where we are a lot more welcome. Maybe St. John's? :-)

[Little Kopit]

When I stay in campgrounds, I want trees, but I don't spend my vacation at a campground any more than you do. Yes, I can enjoy city things.

These days I travel with two dogs. I have to think of their enjoying the trip too. For the life of me, to stay overnight in a parking lot as a regular thing is very offputting, not camping IMHO. I've done it when time was a factor, but only because of time.

But that doesn't mean the whole province is against me as a visitor. Sorry, that's what it sounds like your saying

I should hope you go to anyplace for more than where you put your rig overnight. That's planning!!!!!

IIRC you picked a parking lot private cg in a town on the Northern Peninsula over the Gros Morne National Park cgs, because you could have full services. Not for me thank you. I value being outdoors in the evening as much as where I go during the day. I don't live in an apartment and I don't want to be closer to my neighbors than I would be in an apartment.

Different styles. Neither should be painted black

[brad03ca]

Just wanted to reply to Kopit, but Stan got here first. Just a reminder..Stan is not doing the research or collecting the data, but merely passed along the message. no one is being asked to pick sides, just a survey.

[brad03ca]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">other interesting places in North America to visit, where we are a lot more welcome. Maybe St. John's? :-) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Stan if you haven't been to St.John's you gotta go. One place you will be welcome is NL.

[Stan Birch]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Little Kopit: For the life of me, to stay overnight in a parking lot as a regular thing is very offputting, not camping IMHO. I've done it when time was a factor, but only because of time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
We've been routinely been overnighting in shopping malls since 1973. It all started out as shopping trips across the border to Buffalo, Baltimore, Chicago, etal; when American prices tended to be much better than Canadian prices. and for sure, we don't consider it "camping".

While passing through Dryden, Ont, a couple weeks ago we noticed a new sign posted in the Wal-Mart lot:

Notice to Campers within the City of Dryden
Overnight Camping on Commercial Parking Lots Under Zoning By-Law xxx-xx. Lined up on either side of the sign were five RVs that still had their curtains drawn from the preceeding night. While the sign said you couldn't "camp" there, it didn't say anything about parking. :-0)

That doesn't mean that we don't enjoy camping in Provincial, State and National Parks. We stay in these places enough that we always buy a season pass for Canadian National Parks; and we are looking forward to spending a few weeks in the Everglades National Park this winter, along with a number of State Parks. But it will be all Flying J and Wal-Mart all the way there and back; not as if there is really any other option anyway.

But when we are travelling, we do all the usual tour stuff in the daytime, and then do the shopping mall thing at night.

&gt;But that doesn't mean the whole province is
&gt;against me as a visitor. Sorry, that's what
&gt;it sounds like your saying

Nope. It's just the Campground Owners' Association that thinks that the provincial economy will somehow benefit by RVers paying then $20, instead of spending $100 at a restaurant or shopping mall.

&gt;IIRC you picked a parking lot private cg in a
&gt;town on the Northern Peninsula over the Gros
&gt;Morne National Park cgs, because you could
&gt;have full services.

That's because there were four of us, including my wife and daughter-in-law. And when are travelling with two females, full hookups are pretty much a necessity! :-O)

&gt;Different styles. Neither should be painted black

Exactly.

[Little Kopit]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And when are travelling with two females </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Well, Stan that is one I certainly understand, but I don't let that stop me from staying in pleasant surroundings, by my definition of pleasant surroundings.

[Stan Birch]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by brad03ca: Stan if you haven't been to St.John's you gotta go. One place you will be welcome is NL. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nfld is great! We were there in 2003; and from all our travels around the country, we found Newfoundland the most interesting and enjoyable place we've ever been.

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending upon perspective), we only got to spend eight days there, because the kidz called us from Halifax while we were enroute, and wanted to join us; but they could only sqeeze eight days from their schedule. It was great having them along, but eight days is not nearly enough for Newfoundland. We might go again next summer for a somewhat more extended stay.

And yes, we did boondock at St. John's after calling every campground in the book; and couldn't find a single vacancy. So we spent the night in a community centre, right across the road from a great seafood restaurant. :-) We also spent another night at the Wal-Mart in Cornerbrook? along with 20 other RVers. Other than that, all the other nights were spent in campgrounds.

We really look forward to getting back without being confined to a schedule.

I wonder if they are going to allow us to spend the night in line at the ferry terminal in Nova Scotia, like we did last time. :-)

[Little Kopit]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">another night at the Wal-Mart in Cornerbrook? along with 20 other RVers. Other than that, all the other nights were spent in campgrounds.

We really look forward to getting back without being confined to a schedule.

I wonder if they are going to allow us to spend the night in line at the ferry terminal in Nova Scotia, like we did last time. :-) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can't imagine that they wouldn't let you spend a night at the ferry terminal. After all trucks spend a long time there, though the Marine Atlantic wants to go back to having trucking companies load their own trailers!!! Can't blame them, shuttle for drop trailers ties up a ferry for hours.


Corner Brook two words Stan.

Now, I've never been around Murphy Square @ closing time in summer, but I've also not seen that many RVs there at a time either.

Say Stan did you ever hear of gravel pit camping? Buddywasisname song The Pits That's what is done here. & there is too much crown land for any private cg vs. Wally World thing to go anywhere in NL. Unenforcable, like many snowmobiling and ATV regulaions.

Oh yeah, in case you hadn't noticed there is a resort in Humber Valley. Result, rising realestate prices. Why, houses for resort employees. So, just maybe the handy gravel pits between Corner Brook and Deer Lake will be fewer in #. But geeze Prince Edward Park is only 10 min. or less from Murphy Square.

[Stan Birch]

Out of curiosity, I checked out Nova Scotia statistics, to see what if any effect Nova Scotia's RV policy might be having on RV travel to the province since this no-overnight parking stuff started in 2003:

Visitor Entries to Nova Scotia
Recreational Vehicles:

2003 -13%
2004 -10%
2005 -31% !!

I wonder how much Nova Scotia RV policy is responsible this enormous drop in RVers visiting the Province, as more and more RVers are become aware of their RV policy?

[Stan Birch]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Little Kopit:
I can't imagine that they wouldn't let you spend a night at the ferry terminal. After all trucks spend a long time there, </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

'Cause it would violate Nova Scotia's no-overnighting law pertaining to recreational vehicles:

Tourist Accommodations Act:
(3) No person shall use, maintain, operate or manage a camping establishment or permit the use of any lands for the overnight parking of recreational vehicles for the travelling or vacationing public unless there is a licence which is in force.

Since the ferry terminal doesn't have a campground licence, it would be illegal. :-)

Yeh, I've heard of gravel pit camping. We did that last month on the Top of the World Highway, waiting for the ferry to Dawson City; since it only runs during certain hours.

[The Big Kid]

From my NS experience, I find that the small towns have great RV areas.

It Halifax that causes the grief. If memory serves, only 3 campgrounds remotely inside the city limits. None anywhere convienient.

Nothing but grief from RV dealerships. Bridgewater has a RV guy who is wonderful. The campgrounds are pretty good too.

Windsor has a cheap camground at the fairgrounds, free if nothing is going on(maybe not anymore). It does bring people into the downtown, which is good for $$.

And after all, its all about the $$. I wonder what the by-law enforcement folks would say if they see me sleeping in my trailer, in the driveway, when visiting the in-laws? Nobody said anything last few times.

things that make you go HHMMMMMM. I wonder if Walmart put up a donation box outside the store, said that you could stay if you paid something, then it could be a campground. Dry camping only, no hookups. They could even re-paint the lines to mark off RV spots. I know that there is tons of room at the Penhorn Mall. Bayers lake has acres under asphalt. Think of the business opportunity.

HHMMMM

[brad03ca]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Oh yeah, in case you hadn't noticed there is a resort in Humber Valley. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wish I had know that Kopit. When we arrived back to Cornor Brook from St.John's, we were tired and didn't check the travel guide. Wife wanted to stay in a Wal-Mart parking lot, just to say we did it. Well sometime before we got to sleep, there was some kids hangin around, talking laughing etc. kinda put me on edge. Everything turned our all right, but sometimes, ya never know.