Light weight full stand up height

[DavidEM]

I am getting ready to downsize to a small SUV with a tow weight of 2,500-3,500 lbs. That means I need a TT with an empty weight of no more than 2,000 lbs and a GVWR less than 3,500 lbs.

I need full stand up height including the shower. Full TT systems including furnace, water heater, stove, fridge, water storage, flush toilet and shower.

I have looked on line and at the recent Northeast RV show. The only one I could find is the Aliner Ascape ST. It is unique in that it is tear drop shaped in the front, but the rear end is squared off which is where the entry door is located. The first 4-5' is full stand up height until it slopes downward with the front tear drop. A pic is attached.

The only other one I found is the Nucamp, but it has two problems. The bed, twins fore and aft, has a horrible sleeping position with your head tucked under an overhang. The shower is also not full stand up.

Any other ideas?

David

[carybosse]

I think that is a tall order. I had a popup that didn't meet that weight requirement. I think you are going to be stuck with a wet toilet area where the shower and toilet are in the same space. The waste tank is going to be very small.

I couldn't even find a tent camper with a shower/toilet setup that had a dry weight under about 2500 pounds.

You can look at Forest River Flagstaff and see if you want to bite off that much.

I know when I looked at SUVs back in 2014, short of a full size SUV, or perhaps a mid-size like a Ford Explorer, you were limited to that 3500 pound capacity, and I never even got to the payload capacity.

I ended up with a GMC Canyon (Chevy Colorado sibling) to get a decent tow rating. Is there a reason you can't consider a md-size truck? In 2014-2015, I found they were priced better than smaller SUVs with less capability. Put a cap or a tonneau cover over the bed and you can get a lot of the flexibility of an SUV with a lot more capability.

[DavidEM]

I would consider a small truck, but Mama don't like it. And you know what they say if Mama ain't happy?

In the small SUV world, there only seem to be a few with 3,500 lb tow ratings and all have upgraded turbocharged engines: Subaru Outback, Ford Escape and Toyota RAV4.

I do like the Escape ST. But it is no longer produced by Aliner so it will have to be used.

David

[carybosse]

Is the Chevy Traverse too large? Ford Explorer? Toyota Highlander?

You can get a Chevy Traverse rated to tow 5K at least, a little more wiggle room.

[Old Radios]

We have a 2021 NuCamp T@B 320S Boondock. We sleep with our heads toward the front so the cabinets aren't a problem. The inside kitchen version (S not CS) has longer beds. Any small 2,000 lb or less teardrop with a shower won't give you much room or a very large freshwater tank anyway so wanting a big shower inside isn't going to do you much good. After searching for months, the T@B we have is the best equipped and quality we found in the 2K or less range. You need to think of a small teardrop more as a hard shell tent than a full size camper and plan accordingly.

[Wellibe]

The Braxton Creek Bushwhacker Plus trailers check all of your boxes except for the 2,000 lb dry weight (all are a few hundred over that). They have larger tanks than most other similar size TTs. They are inexpensive, and you get what you pay for in terms of build quality.

However, I would not tow a Bushwhacker Plus with any of the three small CUVs you mentioned. My Toyota Highlander technically is rated to tow 5,000 lbs, but it has all it can handle with my Bushwhacker Plus 17BH (2,380 dry/3,300 gross weight). Wind resistance is a killer for a small/medium size CUV, so you will find that you can't get anywhere near the maximum tow rating.

[radar]

I'll throw another vote towards the Nucamp T@B 320. It checks the boxes of most of your want list. We actually ended up in a T@B 400 but came pretty close to buying the T@B 320, and it probably would have been fine for most things. We realized we had some pretty long trips coming up so decided to opt for the little bigger 400. As well we have a medium sized SUV with 447 horsepower so towing it isn't a problem. But take the time to check out the 320. Seems pricey at first but has some high end European components and tows super nice without any fancy hitches etc. People we know who went the 320 route love them. Or if you get a little beefier SUV look at the 400. Our loaded for camping weight is about 3450 pounds and hitch weight about 340 pounds.

Hope that helps. I don;t have a picture of the 320 but here is our 400.

[DavidEM]

My search for the perfect small, stand up TT continues and I have found a few more candidates than the Aliner Ascape, Nucamp TAB 320. These are:

The Casita Independence Delux. It is surprisingly light at 2480 lbs dry weight. The twin bed version gives zero additional sitting space other than the beds themselves. It apparently has separate fresh, grey and blackwater tanks (anyone can confirm this) like most larger TTs.

Another interesting brand is the Snoozy 2 that came to my attention. It is a sleek, teardrop shape that should get decent gas mileage. The twin bed version seems to have a small bench seat in addition to the beds. Fresh and grey water capacity is good, but the toilet is a cassette type. I am trying to wrap my head around that. I can probably live with it as we only camp for two nights out at a time. It does have decent fresh and grey water tank capacities. Here is a pic:

[radar]

I would think the cassette toilet is a plus. We are fine with the black tank on our T@B but if the option for a cassette toilet would have been available we would have taken it.

Good luck with the search. Following your progress and appreciate your reports.

[Old Radios]

Originally Posted by DavidEM

Another interesting brand is the Snoozy 2 that came to my attention. but the toilet is a cassette type. I am trying to wrap my head around that. I can probably live with it as we only camp for two nights out at a time. It does have decent fresh and grey water tank capacities. Here is a pic:

We've had ours with a cassette toilet for a year now. The cassette is perfect for us. Had the black tank on previous campers and motorhomes and the cassette is much easier. You can pop it out and dump it in a toilet or outhouse. No need to pack up and move to find a dump station or carry and deal with a black tank hose.

[rosebud1218]

https://www.irv2.com/forums/attachme...1&d=1657330037

Little Guy MiniMax
https://golittleguy.com/lg-mini/

[DavidEM]

Well, I think I have settled on the Snoozy II, a nice all fiberglass body TT with a galvanized frame. Some of the things I like about it:

1. Perfectly smooth, no penetrations, fiberglass top. You will never have to worry about roof leaks destroying your TT. The galvanized frame will also improve expected life without the weld quality problems of an aluminum frame like on the discontinued Livin Lites.

2. The twin bed layout leaves room for a 44" bench seat (I hesitate to call it a couch) on the bathroom side. This feature distinguishes it from others like the Nucamp Tab, Casita, etc. On rainy days, we need someplace to sit inside besides the twin beds. 44" is marginal, but it will do.

3. I have come to grips with the cassette toilet and the fluid capacity for fresh and grey water is great- 27 gal each. We can easily camp three nights without refilling or dumping.

4. The solid red oak interior looks very nice.

5. Surprisingly in spite of #4, the empty weight is fine- 2,495 lbs. The fiberglass shell is cored so it should be light and that does provide some insulation, and it is all around- roof, sides and bottom.

6. One problem I discovered but I think I can live with is no propane tank and no stove top or furnace. There is a place for a stove top and I could mount a 20# tank on the front bumper, but I only use the stove top to brew coffee in the morning and the furnace for heating up the camper after a < 50 degree night.

So I will use a portable camping stove and a small Mr Heater radiant heater, both powered by 1 lb propane cylinders. 3-4 cylinders each season should cover those needs and it is lots simpler than permanently mounted systems.

Total price with a few options is about $35,000 list purchased direct from the factory in S Carolina. Today I might have to pay list price, but next year I suspect they will negotiate as the market softens. I am also waiting until then to downgrade our medium SUV to a small SUV which is why I need a lightweight TT.

FWIW, having researched all of the small SUV specs, there are only three that can tow 3,500 lbs- the Ford Escape, the Mazda CX50 and the Toyota RAV4. The Subaru Forester can tow 3,000 lbs but that is marginal. All of these are premium versions and MSRPs are near $40K.

But if I can sell my 2021 Thor Axis for what I think I can this fall, the money works out just about right to buy the Snoozy II and a new small SUV to pull it with.

David

[radar]

Originally Posted by DavidEM

Well, I think I have settled on the Snoozy II, a nice all fiberglass body TT with a galvanized frame. Some of the things I like about it:

1. Perfectly smooth, no penetrations, fiberglass top. You will never have to worry about roof leaks destroying your TT. The galvanized frame will also improve expected life without the weld quality problems of an aluminum frame like on the discontinued Livin Lites.

2. The twin bed layout leaves room for a 44" bench seat (I hesitate to call it a couch) on the bathroom side. This feature distinguishes it from others like the Nucamp Tab, Casita, etc. On rainy days, we need someplace to sit inside besides the twin beds. 44" is marginal, but it will do.

3. I have come to grips with the cassette toilet and the fluid capacity for fresh and grey water is great- 27 gal each. We can easily camp three nights without refilling or dumping.

4. The solid red oak interior looks very nice.

5. Surprisingly in spite of #4, the empty weight is fine- 2,495 lbs. The fiberglass shell is cored so it should be light and that does provide some insulation, and it is all around- roof, sides and bottom.

6. One problem I discovered but I think I can live with is no propane tank and no stove top or furnace. There is a place for a stove top and I could mount a 20# tank on the front bumper, but I only use the stove top to brew coffee in the morning and the furnace for heating up the camper after a < 50 degree night.

So I will use a portable camping stove and a small Mr Heater radiant heater, both powered by 1 lb propane cylinders. 3-4 cylinders each season should cover those needs and it is lots simpler than permanently mounted systems.

Total price with a few options is about $35,000 list purchased direct from the factory in S Carolina. Today I might have to pay list price, but next year I suspect they will negotiate as the market softens. I am also waiting until then to downgrade our medium SUV to a small SUV which is why I need a lightweight TT.

FWIW, having researched all of the small SUV specs, there are only three that can tow 3,500 lbs- the Ford Escape, the Mazda CX50 and the Toyota RAV4. The Subaru Forester can tow 3,000 lbs but that is marginal. All of these are premium versions and MSRPs are near $40K.

But if I can sell my 2021 Thor Axis for what I think I can this fall, the money works out just about right to buy the Snoozy II and a new small SUV to pull it with.

David

Thanks for the report back David. Sounds like a nice unit. Hope you get it soon and get out there camping. Be sure to post when you do.

[DavidEM]

So, I have investigated the Snoozy II further, found some disconcerting issues, but have a way of resolving them. But at the end of the day I will stick with my small Class A Thor Axis. So here are my thoughts about the Snooozy II:

One thing I totally forgot about is the lack of a propane fired hot water heater. I like showering in my RV, not the campsite bathroom and that requires hot water. The Snoozy II has a small Bosch electric hot water heater which won't work in a non FHU site which is where we always camp.

So I would have to add a propane tank on the tongue, install a small WH, probably a Girard tankless one, and with propane installed, I might as well permanently install a stove top and a 6,000 BTU/hr Wave radiant heater. That will add about 100 lbs in weight. I would also double the battery capacity and switch to two G31 AGMs, so that will add 75 lbs or so.

That pushes me up to a dry weight of 2,700 lbs. Add 27 gallons of water and I am at 2,900 lbs and that assumes that the factory dry weight is correct which they usually are not. With kitchen, bedding and other stuff I am sure I will be in the 3,300 lb range. Doable but close to my TV's 3,500 lb max.

But while camping last week in our Thor Axis 24.1, I had a revelation. It was cold one morning, a low of 48 overnight which occurs several times each year where we camp in the NE. So we hung out inside the MH all morning until it warmed up outside. The Axis has a decent 5' long couch for me to lay back and read. My wife swivels her passenger seat around which makes a nice lounge chair. And our dog climbs up on the driver's seat so she can look out the big window in front.

None of that would happen in any of the several small TTs mentioned above. We would be relegated at best to the short bench seat and one of the beds.

So we are going to keep the Axis. Thanks all of you who read and commented on my search. It did define what we need in an RV.

David