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12-27-2018, 10:50 AM
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#1
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 63
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50A wiring
I don't know if this is brand/model specific or more general to RV's with 50A shore power so I'm trying it here...
Does anybody know how the 50A service is wired? I had assumed it was like 240V residential wiring where there are two 120V legs and breakers are distributed between those two legs. However, I was looking at the generator specs and it says it's 120V. Does this mean that the coach still has two 120V legs like residential wiring and the generator's output is wired to both of those legs?
Also, if there are two 120V legs in the breaker panel, is there any way to tell which devices are using which leg? In residential electrical service, I wouldn't think it's that critical to ensure balance between the legs but with shore power, it seems like it would be easy to overuse one leg and trip the breaker instead of balancing between the two legs.
Specifically, this is a Renegade Verona LE if that makes any difference.
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12-27-2018, 10:59 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Country Coach Owners Club Solo Rvers Club iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 37,725
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You are right about the 240 volt wiring.
What generator do you have? There are only two Onan RV generators that will output 240 volts, the 10 and 12.5 Quiet Diesels. I have the 12.5 and my dryer is a 240 volt unit.
__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft, HWH Active Air
Charter Good Sam Lifetime Member, FMCA,
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '21 Jeep JLU Rubicon Ecodiesel
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12-27-2018, 11:03 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 26,689
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RV 50A service IS TWO 120V AC Hot Legs, ONE Neutral and ONE Ground
One Hot goes to one of the 50A CBs in the MAIN AC PANEL
That CB energizes 1/2 of Main Panel Buss
Other HOT goes to other 50A CB in MAIN AC PANEL
That CB energizes other 1/2 of Main Panel Buss
Individual Branch CBs connect to one Buss or other Buss...Alternating
Odd number CBs on one buss/Even number CBs on the other buss
High Amp draw components (A/C Units) should be split between the two busses
Generator.....
Most likely 30A and should have 2 CBs on gen for the 2 Hot legs.
Each HOT would fed 1/2 of Main AC Panel (just like 50A) via transfer switch
Just only have 30A vs 50A service when using Gen
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Dodge 3500 w/Tractor Motor
US NAVY---USS Decatur DDG-31
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12-27-2018, 11:04 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Somewhere....
Posts: 4,054
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggie97
I don't know if this is brand/model specific or more general to RV's with 50A shore power so I'm trying it here...
Does anybody know how the 50A service is wired? I had assumed it was like 240V residential wiring where there are two 120V legs and breakers are distributed between those two legs. However, I was looking at the generator specs and it says it's 120V. Does this mean that the coach still has two 120V legs like residential wiring and the generator's output is wired to both of those legs?
Also, if there are two 120V legs in the breaker panel, is there any way to tell which devices are using which leg? In residential electrical service, I wouldn't think it's that critical to ensure balance between the legs but with shore power, it seems like it would be easy to overuse one leg and trip the breaker instead of balancing between the two legs.
Specifically, this is a Renegade Verona LE if that makes any difference.
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This is Brand/Model specific, as it will depend on what generator you have. My coach has a 240V generator, so it will be wired differently than yours.
I'm pretty sure that most coaches with 240V/50amp shore power will have a residential style main breaker box that can support both 120V and 240V loads. In those, alternating breakers are on different legs.
A photo of your main breaker panel would help give you a definitive answer.
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2008 King Aire 4562, Spartan K3(GT) w/ Cummins ISX 600
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 5.7L V8 Hemi w/ Blue Ox Aventa LX Tow Bar and baseplate, SMI Air Force One brake
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12-27-2018, 11:10 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On the Road
Posts: 1,223
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Do you have an automated transfer switch (ATS)? If so the wiring from the generator, shore power and circuit breaker panel all meet there and that’s where I would look to see how it’s tied together.
Without a wiring diagram you will have to test each outlet, throwing breakers one by one to identify them. Mine are factory labeled.
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Dan & Arlene
2005 Monaco Dynasty Diamond IV
Chasing the good weather
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12-27-2018, 11:31 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,799
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Correct, two legs of 120 volts each, a common neutral and a ground. That is a 50 amp RV service. Generally, unlike home wiring, there are probably no devices that use both legs and are powered by 240, but some RVs today do have things like dryers and induction cooktops that are 240.
Your ATS is a 3 pole relay that switches both hots and the neutral as well. This is generally done since the generator neutral is connected to ground at the generator (bonded) but the shore power neutral is bonded at the pedestal or further upstream at the park main feed.
Unlike most residential panels where the left breakers are fed by one leg and the right by the other, RV panels are more compact and may not be that simple, but you can find out which breaker slot is on which leg from the panel maker spec.
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Scott Brownstein
Palm Island, Florida
2015 Georgetown 335DS
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12-27-2018, 11:33 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Somewhere....
Posts: 4,054
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sbrownstein
Unlike most residential panels where the left breakers are fed by one leg and the right by the other...
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That is not true of any residential panels I've seen in the last 30 years. The different legs alternate on both sides of the panel, which is how you can get a 240V circuit with a double breaker.
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2008 King Aire 4562, Spartan K3(GT) w/ Cummins ISX 600
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 5.7L V8 Hemi w/ Blue Ox Aventa LX Tow Bar and baseplate, SMI Air Force One brake
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12-27-2018, 11:39 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,799
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You are right, I stand corrected, the bus goes down each side but is "finger jointed" so that a two pole breaker can engage both legs and the singles will alternate.
Sorry
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Scott Brownstein
Palm Island, Florida
2015 Georgetown 335DS
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12-27-2018, 11:40 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 350
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Dave and Holly
2011 Winnebago Sightseer 33c with a 2011 Honda CRV behind.
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12-27-2018, 12:33 PM
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#10
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: West Palm Beach, FL. USA
Posts: 27,563
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Much opportunity for confusion here. It's a fact that standard RV 50A supply is 240v and exactly like the power that comes to a house from the utility power lines. However, most RVs employ that power source as two separate 120v lines and have no 240v appliances, but that's an electrical system design choice rather than a fundamental difference in what is available. There are residential units that make the same choice, e.g. a utility shed, workshop or apartment that has no need for 240v devices. My own residential lot is an example: I have three buildings supplied from one service entrance and only one of them actually has 240v branch circuits. The other two have 240v available to them, but the installed load centers have 120v circuits only.
Because most RVs have no need for 240v branch circuits within the RV, some of them use a load center (breaker panel) that does not have the capability to install 240v (twin) breakers. The most common of those is the Intelletec Smart EMS load center. The 240v capability stops at the main 50A breaker on such units. Those RVs may also use a genset that supplies power only as two separate 120v lines, without any 240v capability at all. The popular Onan 7500 & 8000 diesel genset is a common example. Again, that is a design choice only, and other gensets (e.g.Onan10k and 12.5k) do provide 240v capability.
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Gary Brinck
Former owner of 2004 American Tradition and several other RVs
Home is West Palm Beach, FL
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12-27-2018, 03:35 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: SW Louisiana
Posts: 8,849
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I agree there is a lot of room for confusion here, so let me try to put it another way,
A shore power outlet will have 4 prongs, and be wired 120/240V with a ground, meaning 2 hots, (L1, L2), A Neutral and a ground. Where you get 120V between either hot and neutral, and 240V between the two hots.
Most (smaller) RV generators under about 10KW are 120V only, so the transfer switch is wired so that L1 is connected to both the L1 and L2 outputs from the transfer switch. In this case when on generator power you still get 120V between the Line and Neutral at the breaker box inside the coach, but get 0 volts Line to Line between L1 and L2 at the breaker box. This is rarely a problem though as few RV's have any 240V appliances (clothes dryers, and maybe induction stoves), and those that do tend to have larger diesel generators which output 240V so have both an L1 and L2.
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2002 Safari Trek 2830 on P32 Chassis with 8.1L w/ 400 watts solar 420Ah LiFePo4
2017 Jeep Cherokee Overland & 2007 Toyota Yaris TOADs with Even Brake,
Demco Commander tow bar and Blue Ox / Roadmaster base plates
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12-27-2018, 03:48 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 2,706
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaac-1
I agree there is a lot of room for confusion here, so let me try to put it another way,
A shore power outlet will have 4 prongs, and be wired 120/240V with a ground, meaning 2 hots, (L1, L2), A Neutral and a ground. Where you get 120V between either hot and neutral, and 240V between the two hots.
Most (smaller) RV generators under about 10KW are 120V only, so the transfer switch is wired so that L1 is connected to both the L1 and L2 outputs from the transfer switch. In this case when on generator power you still get 120V between the Line and Neutral at the breaker box inside the coach, but get 0 volts Line to Line between L1 and L2 at the breaker box. This is rarely a problem though as few RV's have any 240V appliances (clothes dryers, and maybe induction stoves), and those that do tend to have larger diesel generators which output 240V so have both an L1 and L2.
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What Isaac-1 said!
On a 50A coach with a generator under 10K (Onan 7500 or 8000 watt) the 2 legs are jumpered from the generator into the transfer switch to feed both legs of the panel. These generators only output 120V and cannot feed a 240V dryer or other appliance. The larger generators can and do output 240V. When on shore power, you do in fact have 240V L1 and L2 service.
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Don
'07 Winnebago Journey 34H - CAT C7, Koni's, MCU's, SS Bell Crank, Safe-T-Plus
'07 HHR Toad, SMI AFO, Blue OX
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12-27-2018, 03:58 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,799
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More simply said, 5000 0r 6000 watt generators are using the same concept as a 50 to 30 amp converter, but they can supply 45 amps or so to both legs combined, rather than the 30 from a 30 amp pedestal
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Scott Brownstein
Palm Island, Florida
2015 Georgetown 335DS
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12-28-2018, 09:22 AM
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#14
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_D
You are right about the 240 volt wiring.
What generator do you have? There are only two Onan RV generators that will output 240 volts, the 10 and 12.5 Quiet Diesels. I have the 12.5 and my dryer is a 240 volt unit.
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It’s an Onan QD 8000. We’ve got a dryer so I’m assuming it’s 120V but I’ll have to look up the specs to confirm.
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