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Kahoona · 06-07-2019, 04:36 PM

Has this happened to you? We bought a Used RV. After an overnight trip to see it we returned to buy it. We went through the usual 2 hours of paperwork, signed bills of sale, insurance papers and many others. The last paper placed before us was a Binding Arbitration agreement wherein we agreed not to sue for any reason and could only settle any disagreements with an arbitration company of Advanced RV centers choosing at a cost of $2500 to us. This was intentionally held for last to keep buyers who might have refused the sale from walking out. I still would have walked if it wan not already an as is purchase.

This is the most underhanded behavior possible and I am wondering if there is a place where people who might go there can be warned about this ahead of time.

Or am I wrong and this is fine with customers?

Arch Hoagland · 06-07-2019, 05:04 PM

Interesting. I think I'd be torqued too.

What state are you in?

RKins · 06-07-2019, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kahoona

Has this happened to you? We bought a Used RV. After an overnight trip to see it we returned to buy it. We went through the usual 2 hours of paperwork, signed bills of sale, insurance papers and many others. The last paper placed before us was a Binding Arbitration agreement wherein we agreed not to sue for any reason and could only settle any disagreements with an arbitration company of Advanced RV centers choosing at a cost of $2500 to us.

This was intentionally held for last to keep buyers who might have refused the sale from walking out. I still would have walked if it wan not already an as is purchase.

This is the most underhanded behavior possible and I am wondering if there is a place where people who might go there can be warned about this ahead of time.

Or am I wrong and this is fine with customers?

I'm no lawyer but that is a big flag. Glad you read the paperwork, most don't.

rk911 · 06-07-2019, 05:12 PM

and if you refused to sign? you forked over your $, right? you have a bill of sale, right? what were the consequences if you refused to sign it?

Ranger Smith · 06-07-2019, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rk911

and if you refused to sign? you forked over your $, right? you have a bill of sale, right? what were the consequences if you refused to sign it?

Agree... what would they do . Give you your cash back and rip up bill of sale. . . I doubt it.

**Spdracr39** · 06-07-2019, 06:24 PM

Just don't sign it. There is no way I would.

BCam · 06-07-2019, 06:37 PM

It may not be the case with your dealer but, in many cases, binding arbitration clauses/agreements are treated as optional and the customer won't be required to sign it even though they may not be advised that this is the case.

If it's imbedded in the contract, often it has a separate signature or initial.

My advice is don't sign it and if it's imbedded in the contract, cross it out and initial the deletion.

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer but have experienced this first hand with a couple of agreements (not RV purchases).

Kahoona · 06-08-2019, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arch Hoagland

Interesting. I think I'd be torqued too.

What state are you in?

Florida

Quote:

Originally Posted by RKins

I'm no lawyer but that is a big flag. Glad you read the paperwork, most don't.

Always. I can be Irritation that way

Quote:

Originally Posted by rk911

and if you refused to sign? you forked over your $, right? you have a bill of sale, right? what were the consequences if you refused to sign it?

Sale not final as yet. Seller still needs to sign

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ranger Smith

Agree... what would they do . Give you your cash back and rip up bill of sale. . . I doubt it.

Not cash. Never trust a dealer. Cretified check still in my clipboars. I could wlk away.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCam

It may not be the case with your dealer but, in many cases, binding arbitration clauses/agreements are treated as optional and the customer won't be required to sign it even though they may not be advised that this is the case.

If it's imbedded in the contract, often it has a separate signature or initial.

My advice is don't sign it and if it's imbedded in the contract, cross it out and initial the deletion.

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer but have experienced this first hand with a couple of agreements (not RV purchases).

Seperate sheet.

In my case I did argue the case but only to make a point. This was an As Is vehicle so really there was no harm. If it was a warranted one I would have walked.

Dmiles · 06-08-2019, 09:40 AM

For me personally, I like to putter and fix things, and when something breaks, I usually look at it as an opportunity to upgrade. I live in Georgia, and deal with the dealer that treats me the best, no matter how far, because I'm not going to use their service anyway, unless I find something during final inspection which they either fix, or I walk.

Both dealers I have dealt with happen to be in Florida. They both have their own campground that you are free to use for a couple of nights, in case you find something that needs attention. Both times I did, and both times they fixed everything. Lazy Days fixed everything while we were there, except one part they had to order. To their credit, it was a control board for the Onan generator, ($$$) and the only problem it was causing was that the hour counter ran all the time, whether it was running or not. Even though we took a leap of faith by heading on back to Virginia with a promise that it would be shipped if I agreed to install it and send the old one back, it showed right up shortly after our return. Would not hesitate to deal with them again, if the price was right.

As far as the arbitration nonsense goes, like you say, you're buying "as is" so it seems kind of irrelevant. I'd probably say something like "after you fix everything we find, I'll be glad to sign it."

RRR · 06-08-2019, 12:11 PM

We don't need a CFPB.

Gary RVRoamer · 06-09-2019, 10:11 AM

The idea of binding arbitration is to reduce lawsuits. "As is" alone doesn't do that - you could still sue that they misrepresented what you were buying or reneged on a promise to do something (install new batteries or some such).

Arbitration isn't inherently bad, but pay attention to who gets to arbitrate. The seller probably specified a supposedly independent arbitrator who may be decidedly pro business.

Arbitration can only apply to civil matters. If there was fraudulent behavior, criminal law still applies. As does any relevant consumer protection law. Those things cannot be negotiated away.

Hikerdogs · 06-10-2019, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kahoona

Florida

Always. I can be Irritation that way

Sale not final as yet. Seller still needs to sign

Not cash. Never trust a dealer. Cretified check still in my clipboars. I could wlk away.

Seperate sheet.

In my case I did argue the case but only to make a point. This was an As Is vehicle so really there was no harm. If it was a warranted one I would have walked.

They probably added the arbitration paperwork precisely because the sale was "as is". Several years ago there were postings by someone who had purchased a used motorhome "as is" to get a cheaper price then proceeded to attempt to get the dealer and the manufacturer to repair all the problems they encountered.

The person went through several iterations of attempting to shame both the dealer and the manufacturer into paying for repairing problems that were noted at the time of sale. The price was discounted to account for the cost of repairing the non functional items but apparently that wasn't good enough for the customer since they continued to demand the dealer and the manufacturer repair the problems at no cost. I don't know the final results as to who paid for what, but I'll be in the future that dealer included arbitration paper work as the sole resolution for sales of "as is" units.