Chassis batteries not charging

[jabassmaster]

My 2006 winnebago Journey has stopped charging my chassis batteries, whether on shore or generator power.
It does get charged with motor running. Anyone had this problem and can direct me to details for fixing problem.
Appreciate any help. Thanks...

[kenwyatt]

Would think you have a B.I.R.D relay and a Big Boy setup to keep both banks charged. Do you know if that’s what you have.

[l1v3fr33ord1]

jabassmaster-

Here's a thread that will explain all for you.

Chassis Batteries not charging- 2004 Vectra

especially post #6.

Additional information is in attachment below.

There's no "BIRD relay" on this year and model Winnebago, by the way. It uses a ignition-in-run-state signal to cause the BATT BOOST solenoid to close, instead of a more sophisticated IRD or BIRD circuit. Those circuits frequently incorporate voltage-sensing and some timers.

[FIRE UP]

Originally Posted by jabassmaster

My 2006 winnebago Journey has stopped charging my chassis batteries, whether on shore or generator power.
It does get charged with motor running. Anyone had this problem and can direct me to details for fixing problem.
Appreciate any help. Thanks...

jabassmaster,
You DO NOT HAVE A B.I.R.D. system, as many think. What you DO have is junction area in the front of your coach, as you lift up the hood. You will see a panel, right in front you labled;

Battery Disconnect Solenoid
Auxiliary Battery Boost solenoid.

The panel cover is held on with zeus fasteners. Twist them and the panel cover comes off. Typically, the larger solenoid is the Trombetta dual duty Auxiliary battery boost solenoid. And the smaller one is the house battery disconnect solenoid.

Now, the dual duty solenoid is just that. It had dual duties. The first one is, when you push the *Auxiliary Battery Boost" toggle, on your dash, to be used for connecting the house batteries to the chassis batteries for additional cranking power when the diesel is slow to start.

It's second duty is, when the engine is started, via an ignition wire, that solenoid is energized which, connects the charging of the chassis batteries to charge the house batteries too.

Now, that's how the basic system works. What you need to do right up front is, using a VOM or, Volt Ohm Meter, set on 12VDC, you need to check the voltage of one of the large pins on one side of that dual duty solenoid, PRIOR to starting the engine, to see what kind of voltage is present. Note the voltage reading.

Then, start the engine and do the same test, on BOTH SIDES of that dual duty solenoid. If, you see no increase in voltage on the same side you previously checked, AFTER THE ENGINE IS RUNNING, HOUSTON, WE HAVE A PROBLEM!

If that situation exists, you now have to start to back track, all the way to the alternator to see if there's issues anywhere along the way. For some odd reason, Winne and Itasca (Vectra-Horizon-Journey-Meridian) all made on the same assembly line, decided to put all that mechanism in the very front of the Journey and Meridian coaches. In the Vectras and Horizons, they put those two solenoids in a hidden compartment, in the electrical shore power bay.
Scott

[l1v3fr33ord1]

jabassmaster-

Scott is right on the money. In case you haven't already done so, you can download the wiring diagrams for the 2006 Journey via this set of links:

Winnebago Manuals and Diagrams
Wiring Diagrams
2006 Journey 36G
or
2006 Journey 36SG

In both cases, the drawing that shows the chassis electrical box as Scott describes is the "Front End Wiring Installation" drawing set, sheet 2.

I had to look at your user profile to see you have a 36-footer. A suggestion: You should add a "signature" to your profile. It contains whatever info you want; most people put info about their coach there, so they don't have to type it into each message. Instructions for adding a signature are here.

[jabassmaster]

Thanks. Added signature...

[jabassmaster]

I changed out my dual solenoid (replaced with one with silver comtacts) and replaced chassis batteries (12/09) with new ones (commercial 31c, 1140 CA at 32 deg ($110/ea at Samsclub).

On shore power voltages now (after 24 hrs) are as follows:
12.9v at chassis batteries, 13.2v at house batteries
13.2v on right side of dual solenoid, 12.4v on left side of dual solenoid.

With engine started dual second does transfer high voltage from right side of solenoid to left side so that both chassis and house batteries receive 14.6v.

If I am on shore power does the dual solenoid even play in getting charging voltage to the chassis batteries???

Thought on troubleshooting further would be appreciated...

[l1v3fr33ord1]

jabassmaster-

The Trik-L-Start's job is to charge the chassis batteries while the house battery bank is charging. The BATT BOOST solenoid plays no active role.

It does play a passive role. The Trik-L-Start is attached to the chassis battery lug on the BATT BOOST solenoid.

It is also attached to the house load side of the BATTERY DISCONNECT solenoid. To work correctly, the house battery disconnect switch must be "on."

When the Trik-L-Start is working as designed, you will read the same voltage at the chassis battery lug on the BATT BOOST solenoid and at the house load side of the BATTERY DISCONNECT solenoid, and that voltage should be in the range of 13.2 to 14.4 volts. This assumes the house battery bank charging source is charging the house batteries, within that 13.2 to 14.4V range.

Note: To charge the chassis batteries, they must first be discharged enough to activate the Trik-L-Start. You may want to test by turning on the headlights for some time, with the engine off, to drain the chassis batteries sufficiently.

[twinboat]

Originally Posted by jabassmaster

I changed out my dual solenoid (replaced with one with silver comtacts) and replaced chassis batteries (12/09) with new ones (commercial 31c, 1140 CA at 32 deg ($110/ea at Samsclub).

On shore power voltages now (after 24 hrs) are as follows:
12.9v at chassis batteries, 13.2v at house batteries
13.2v on right side of dual solenoid, 12.4v on left side of dual solenoid.

With engine started dual second does transfer high voltage from right side of solenoid to left side so that both chassis and house batteries receive 14.6v.

If I am on shore power does the dual solenoid even play in getting charging voltage to the chassis batteries???

Thought on troubleshooting further would be appreciated...

If you have Bi-directional charging, that same boost solenoid will close and let the house battery higher voltage charge the chassis battery.

If not, and that seems to be your case, then the two large posts of that boost/isolation solenoid is where you would connect the Trik L Start or Amp L Start.

[jabassmaster]

Took chassis batteries down to 12.5v while house batteries were reading 13.5v....no change.

I believe you are right....should work if trik-L-start us working "as designed". Believe it may time for a new trik-L-start....

[FIRE UP]

jabassmaster,
I'm dead sure Mark knows this in his description of the function of the Trik-L-Start but may have just *slipped* a little. The Trik-L-Start is NOT a battery charger. It's job is to simply ALLOW a given amount of amperage that is destined for the HOUSE batteries, to the CHASSIS batteries, if and when it decides it's necessary. That is, the maximum allowance of amps, siphoned off by the Trik-L-Start, to be sent to the chassis batteries is FIVE amps.

Whereas, if one had the bigger brother, the Amp-L-Start, it allows FIFTEEN amps to be sent to the chassis batteries. No matter which unit one has, either the Trik-L-Start or the Amp-L-Start, both of those units need to see, a .5V difference between BOTH battery banks, in order to step into action. .5 of a volt ain't much. So, needless to say, a Trik-L-Start is almost ALWAYS engaged.

Ok, now, your house battery charging, starts in your Dimensions 2000 Watt, Inverter/Charger. (This of course assumes you still have the Dimensions unit) It then proceeds to your house batteries, via the large, 4/0 cable that is connected to the Inverter/charger through the 300 amp fuse, that is directly above your house batteries, and finally into your house batteries.

Then, there's another cable, around a 2/0 gauge, that runs from the house batteries, all the way along the length of the coach, up to the center section of that box, just inside your hood, on the front of the coach. That is where your Trombetta dual duty solenoid is, that you've been messing with.

Without the Trik-L-Start or Amp-L-Start in place, the charging of your house batteries, stops right there, on the one side of that Trombetta solenoid. Now, I don't mean you won't get house battery charging. All I'm saying is, the charging voltage, from your inverter/charger IS going to the house batteries but, it's also going to that Trombetta.

Now, to allow for that Trik-L-Start to do its job, it must connect between that side of the Trombetta that IS receiving house battery charging, and the side that leads to wiring that is connected to your chassis batteries. THAT is how that works.

That Trombetta is not, REPEAT, IS NOT engaged during shore power operations.

Now, during ENGINE operations, that Trombetta IS ENGAGED,(via an ignition HOT wire) which, in reality, allows charging voltage/amperage, to go the OTHER way and, now charge your house batteries while you're under way. The Trik-L-Start plays ZERO part in any form of charging, during engine operations.

The Trombetta is the king-pin in this operation. If I understand your readings of your Trombetta during shore power ops, one side is 13.2 and the other is 12.4, correct? That's kind-a suggesting to me that, even though you have the more costly version, that if you installed that unit in '09, it might be failing in 2020. That's 11 years of CONTACT-DISCONNECT-CONTACT-DISCONNECT-CONTACT.......etc.. etc. etc. In other words, those SILVER contacts, may, just may be not be conducting ALL the voltage/amperage across them due to wear/carbon etc. Just a thought here.
Scott

[twinboat]

Reread this post and picked up on something.

You say your house battery voltage is at 13.2 volts.

That's to low for most devices and bi-directional charging systems to work. Most say they need 13.4 volts or more to connect.

Look at your inverter/charger and see if it has a battery temperature sensor plugged into it. If so, unplug it, as a test, to see if charging voltage comes up above 13.4 volts, and things start to work normal again. You may be able to read the battery temp on the inverter/charger display and compare it to actual conditions.

[FIRE UP]

Originally Posted by twinboat

Reread this post and picked up on something.

You say your house battery voltage is at 13.2 volts.

That's to low for most devices and bi-directional charging systems to work. Most say they need 13.4 volts or more to connect.

Look at your inverter/charger and see if it has a battery temperature sensor plugged into it. If so, unplug it, as a test, to see if charging voltage comes up above 13.4 volts, and things start to work normal again. You may be able to read the battery temp on the inverter/charger display and compare it to actual conditions.

Unless he, or a previous owner has changed some important components, his level of Winne, the *Journey* does not have any form of bi-directional charging. It's a simple, dual duty solenoid that is used for auxiliary battery boosting if and when needed, and, it's also used to relay charging to the chassis house batteries when the engine is running. To the very best of my knowledge, there is no voltage level requirements in order for any of the Winne Journey, Itasca Meridian (same coach, GMC-Chevy type thing) components to work.

They're either working, or not. Now, as I'm lead to believe, the upper level Winnes, as in Ultimate Freedom and Ultimate Advantage, DO have some form of BIRD systems in those. I'm not familiar with any portion of those ops.
Scott

[scenic route]

Great helpful posts, FIRE UP and twinboat.

Side note: FIRE UP, You are my hero, sir ...29.5 years of retirement(congrats!)...wishing you well and many, many more years of it!