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Old 06-19-2021, 05:28 AM   #1
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DEF issues ?? Big problem or not?

Seems a lot of talk regarding problems with DEF filters sensors etc. People trying to get extra parts, cancelling trips? How big of a problem is this really? Just started reading about them.Like a lot of things right now, replacement parts late August, maybe.
Appreciate any opinions guys.

safe travels all
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Old 06-19-2021, 07:24 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYING BUTCH View Post
Seems a lot of talk regarding problems with DEF filters sensors etc. People trying to get extra parts, cancelling trips? How big of a problem is this really? Just started reading about them.Like a lot of things right now, replacement parts late August, maybe.
Appreciate any opinions guys.

safe travels all

All depends which coach you own ?
Updating your coach information with make, model, year and chassis makes it easier for others to provide help.
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Old 06-19-2021, 06:11 PM   #3
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DEF issues ?? Big problem or not?

Most of the posts I’ve seen pertain to MH on Spartan chassis. DEF head failures. Not sure if Freightliner is having similar issues.

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Old 06-20-2021, 04:42 AM   #4
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Just took delivery of 2020 Anthem. Is there a mileage guys are seeing this problem happen more than just random?
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Old 06-20-2021, 06:50 AM   #5
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Just took delivery of 2020 Anthem. Is there a mileage guys are seeing this problem happen more than just random?

It’s happening much, much more frequently on Spartan and miles do not seems to play in the equation.
Guys are posting heads going out from low miles to higher miles.
Even replacements, some have posted the replacement went out in 500 miles.
One can only hope the new “generation 7” now out is the cure!
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Old 06-20-2021, 07:47 AM   #6
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DEF is NOT a problem. 2015 coach. Easiest to to buy 2.5 gal jugs available many more places now. Mine uses 1 gal every 375 miles. 2.5 about 900 miles. I like cleaner air.
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Old 06-20-2021, 12:14 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYING BUTCH View Post
Seems a lot of talk regarding problems with DEF filters sensors etc. People trying to get extra parts, cancelling trips? How big of a problem is this really? Just started reading about them.Like a lot of things right now, replacement parts late August, maybe.
Appreciate any opinions guys.

safe travels all
There are at least a dozen threads on here about DEF head issues.

Note:.....There is soooo much misinformation out there about DEF heads, that Cummins REALLY needs to step up and produce a document thoroughly explaining the issue and future repairs. I've read a lot of information about DEF heads, since I have one on my Freightliner chassis, but there is a lot of misinformation. Hopefully, this is close to accurate, but please correct anything that is wrong.

The basics.....The first generation DEF heads never had an issue. Along came the Federal government and decided that they wanted DEF heads to have sensors that basically determined DEF quality, temperature, etc. As soon as they did that, they started having DEF head failures, from over the road trucks to RV's.

Cummins specifies the DEF head requirements and then the chassis manufacturer selects a brand. Spartan, and I believe the Tiffen Powerglide chassis chose Shaw DEF heads, which is having the highest number of failures. Freightliner does not disclose their manufacturer, but they've had substantially fewer issues.

The problem has grown to the point that they're running short of DEF heads. I believe Spartan will not replace one, even if you get codes, unless it fails. That kind of makes it hard to plan a trip.

A Class Action lawsuit is probably needed and maybe a relaxation of the Federal requirement. As one person noted, we can put a man on the moon, but we can't get a sensor to work in a DEF head.
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Old 06-20-2021, 12:33 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Dutch Star Don View Post
There are at least a dozen threads on here about DEF head issues.

Note:.....There is soooo much misinformation out there about DEF heads, that Cummins REALLY needs to step up and produce a document thoroughly explaining the issue and future repairs. I've read a lot of information about DEF heads, since I have one on my Freightliner chassis, but there is a lot of misinformation. Hopefully, this is close to accurate, but please correct anything that is wrong.

The basics.....The first generation DEF heads never had an issue. Along came the Federal government and decided that they wanted DEF heads to have sensors that basically determined DEF quality, temperature, etc. As soon as they did that, they started having DEF head failures, from over the road trucks to RV's.

Cummins specifies the DEF head requirements and then the chassis manufacturer selects a brand. Spartan, and I believe the Tiffen Powerglide chassis chose Shaw DEF heads, which is having the highest number of failures. Freightliner does not disclose their manufacturer, but they've had substantially fewer issues.

The problem has grown to the point that they're running short of DEF heads. I believe Spartan will not replace one, even if you get codes, unless it fails. That kind of makes it hard to plan a trip.

A Class Action lawsuit is probably needed and maybe a relaxation of the Federal requirement. As one person noted, we can put a man on the moon, but we can't get a sensor to work in a DEF head.

I think you summed up the situation correctly. However, the solution will never, IMO, include a relaxation of federal standards for the simple reason that there are successful systems meeting the current requirements.

Something I posted in another thread months ago still applies. We have no verifiable data from repair shops, coach builders, parts suppliers, or the government, regarding number of heads in service across all vehicles, and the number of failures. We also have absolutely no information as to a probable cause for head failures. We only have anecdotal reports and now, actions by a chassis builder to withhold replacement parts, to draw our conclusions.

At this time, there doesn't seem to be a need for coach builders, chassis builders, or DEF head suppliers, to "open up" about the issue and make clear what they intend to do in a unified, clear "Public Relations" way. That leaves only speculation as to why the wall of silence, creating angry, frustrated customers and threats of class action.


Perhaps the critical situation in which Spartan finds itself will spark a change, but I have my doubts.
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Old 06-20-2021, 05:05 PM   #9
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Yes the DEF sensor problem is real. It is not manufacturer specific. It is not a Cummins or Spartan, or Tiffin problem.

Just left Tiffin rally. Chief engineer said the problem is a Shaw sensor problem.

Temperatures in DEF tank are higher than expected causing degradation in potting material in sensor head and failure of sensor. Tiffin is trying to qualify new sensor from EU manufacturers, but the EU manufacturers do not make DEF tanks. This appears to be big problem with no quick solutions.

At present, it appears that shortage of Shaw sensors is critical.

Just my summary of info from Tiffin rally.

Please don't flame the messenger. Yes, this could be biased from Tiffin viewpoint.

Just info for you to consider.
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Old 06-21-2021, 11:54 AM   #10
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Yes the DEF sensor problem is real. It is not manufacturer specific. It is not a Cummins or Spartan, or Tiffin problem.

Just left Tiffin rally. Chief engineer said the problem is a Shaw sensor problem.

Temperatures in DEF tank are higher than expected causing degradation in potting material in sensor head and failure of sensor. Tiffin is trying to qualify new sensor from EU manufacturers, but the EU manufacturers do not make DEF tanks. This appears to be big problem with no quick solutions.

At present, it appears that shortage of Shaw sensors is critical.

Just my summary of info from Tiffin rally.

Please don't flame the messenger. Yes, this could be biased from Tiffin viewpoint.

Just info for you to consider.
Can you explain how EU sensor manufacturers not making DEF tanks results in a "big problem?" Honestly, I don't see the connection.
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