Drive shaft destroyed after reconnection - they killed my motorhome!

[King Richard]

I learn more every time I read these posts. I was reading my owners book and it has a section on tow procedure.
Specifically stated you must remove the drive shaft.
Also explains the reason for towing from the front (weight) and what is best way to tow.

Also, I agree the chassis flex is the cause for windshield damage.

[LETMGROW]

I honestly don't see why your insurance company should be responsible for the incompetence of a repair shop. If you had run over something in the road and caused this damage then your insurance might be liable but you had no hand in what caused the damage. I'm surprised your insurance company got involved at all even for the damaged windshield. This should all fall back onto the shop which did the repairs and their insurance company if in fact they had insurance.
Have you retained an attorney? I seriously believe you need one to help sort this whole case out. He or she can do an investigation and determine if the shop does or did have insurance or if you need to sue the shop for the cost of the damage plus your pain and suffering along with the loss of the use of your coach. I realize hiring an attorney is an additional unwelcomed expense but at this point in time you are holding the bag for all the costs involved plus you will see an increase in your policy premium and if you decide to change insurance companies you may have difficulty finding a company which will insure you. I would be acting now before the shop you had the repairs done at decides to go out of business or declare bankruptcy and start up again under another name and ownership. This can happen.

[WileyOne]

I've been following this thread because it is interesting, all the time thinking that it didn't apply to my little 24 foot Class-C. But, after seeing the picture of those dualies, they look an awful lot like what I have on my rig.

If and when the day comes that I need to have my 2017 Ford E450 towed, what is the best method? Are there flatbeds out there that can do it? Can it be towed backward, 2 down? Or, will I be faced with a decision whether to disconnect the driveshaft or remove the axles?

[twinboat]

Originally Posted by WileyOne

I've been following this thread because it is interesting, all the time thinking that it didn't apply to my little 24 foot Class-C. But, after seeing the picture of those dualies, they look an awful lot like what I have on my rig.



If and when the day comes that I need to have my 2017 Ford E450 towed, what is the best method? Are there flatbeds out there that can do it? Can it be towed backward, 2 down? Or, will I be faced with a decision whether to disconnect the driveshaft or remove the axles?

You will need to remove the driveshaft or axles.

The thing with light trucks is the driveshaft is long and will just drop to the street and drag until it comes out of the slip joint.

It will bang around some but not turn 90° and slam into the chassis.

In any case, what happened to the OP is a one in a million thing. Driveshafts are removed and replaced all of the time.

[LETMGROW]

Originally Posted by WileyOne

I've been following this thread because it is interesting, all the time thinking that it didn't apply to my little 24 foot Class-C. But, after seeing the picture of those dualies, they look an awful lot like what I have on my rig.

If and when the day comes that I need to have my 2017 Ford E450 towed, what is the best method? Are there flatbeds out there that can do it? Can it be towed backward, 2 down? Or, will I be faced with a decision whether to disconnect the driveshaft or remove the axles?

It might depend on why you need to be towed. For ex: if something in the drive train failed or a rear brake seized up it might be best to raise the rear and tow on the front wheels. If a front wheel was the problem the coach would have to be towed on the rear wheels.
There may be low slung flatbed trailers which could haul your coach but dependent on it's destination height could be an issue.
Pulling the rear axle isn't the tragedy some might lead you to believe. I have towed vehicles by pulling one axle and stuffing the opening with a shop towel to keep fluid from making a major mess. Pulling both axles is preferred but in a snow or ice storm it might be a bit undesired. The distance the vehicle is being towed can be a factor also.
To answer your question, there is no clear or cut and dried answer. Just hope whoever shows up to tow your vehicle has adequate equipment and knowledge to do the job right and safely.

[Mudfrog]

Originally Posted by twinboat

You will need to remove the driveshaft or axles.

The thing with light trucks is the driveshaft is long and will just drop to the street and drag until it comes out of the slip joint.

It will bang around some but not turn 90° and slam into the chassis.

In any case, what happened to the OP is a one in a million thing. Driveshafts are removed and replaced all of the time.

Our insurance company had a tow company tow ours after a tornado brought a tree down on top of it some 20 years ago. The truck operator disconnected the driveshaft at the differential's U-joint and simply tied that end up between the frame rails. Took maybe 10 minutes to do that.

Dear Abby,

I've seen mention of pulling the axles but I don't understand why this is suggested as it seems it would be the harder way to accomplish the same thing vs disconnecting the driveshaft. A person would also have to store the axles somewhere until they were re-installed. What gives?

Signed, A Bit Confused.

[KanzKran]

Originally Posted by LETMGROW

There may be low slung flatbed trailers which could haul your coach but dependent on it's destination height could be an issue.

The Landoll travelling axle flatbeds, where the axles move forward to tilt the bed, are a little over 3 ft from bed to road surface. That may work depending on how high the RV is - like my van, which is only 9'-9" high.

But I would bet most tow operators would just disconnect the driveshaft and strap it up, especially since it's a 450 (not that big) and tow from the front if the rear is otherwise road worthy. And he could always buy a set of hub covers and just keep them in the coach somewhere, just in case.

[LETMGROW]

Originally Posted by Mudfrog

Our insurance company had a tow company tow ours after a tornado brought a tree down on top of it some 20 years ago. The truck operator disconnected the driveshaft at the differential's U-joint and simply tied that end up between the frame rails. Took maybe 10 minutes to do that.

Dear Abby,

I've seen mention of pulling the axles but I don't understand why this is suggested as it seems it would be the harder way to accomplish the same thing vs disconnecting the driveshaft. A person would also have to store the axles somewhere until they were re-installed. What gives?

Signed, A Bit Confused.

Either way will work but removing an axle only requires popping a wheel cover off, removing the bolts which hold the axle to the hub and sliding the axle out of it's housing. Most towing companies carry air or electric impact guns which will remove bolts in no time. Laying under a vehicle while suspended by a truck can be a little unnerving and you always chance dropping a needle bearing or two or more while trying to free the U-joint caps loose from the differential's companion flange.
Storage shouldn't be an issue. Once the vehicle gets to the repair facility the tow truck driver can simply reinstall the axle. If the vehicle was being towed because a pinion bearing went bad or had a pinion seal leak the only safe way to tow the vehicle would be to pull an axle or both axles.
If I was going to tow a vehicle a long distance I would disconnect the drive shaft and secure it and be sure the caps and attachment hardware was put where it cold be easily found.
A lot depends on the type of failure you encounter and the conditions you are working under. Crawling under a vehicle in deep mud or snow is not my idea of a good time.

[lenny-shawna]

Originally Posted by WileyOne

I've been following this thread because it is interesting, all the time thinking that it didn't apply to my little 24 foot Class-C. But, after seeing the picture of those dualies, they look an awful lot like what I have on my rig.

If and when the day comes that I need to have my 2017 Ford E450 towed, what is the best method? Are there flatbeds out there that can do it? Can it be towed backward, 2 down? Or, will I be faced with a decision whether to disconnect the driveshaft or remove the axles?

I had my F450 dually diesel towed and insisted on a flatbed which they did with zero issues.

[LETMGROW]

Originally Posted by lenny-shawna

I had my F450 dually diesel towed and insisted on a flatbed which they did with zero issues.

Did you have a class C body with a roof mounted AC unit on it? Depending upon where it's being towed to this could be a problem with a low bridge.

[Tallntrue56]

Originally Posted by jaysigel

Update 6:


First, a recap: Our 2006 Travel Supreme 38' DP blew a coolant line and overheated on July 8th, had to be towed, which "only" took FMCA's roadside assistance 15 hours to arrange in Houston, and the actual tow occurred on July 9th. A mobile mechanic was called first, arrived unprepared to do anything, recommended his shop, which was actually called "Mobile Mechanic." The drive shaft was removed by the tow truck driver and the vehicle was towed to the Mobile Mechanic shop in Houston. There, the coolant line was replaced and the drive shaft re-installed. Driving home on July 17th, we got less than 2 miles from the shop when the drive shaft came loose and destroyed the bell housing, torque converter and transmission. It was towed back to Mobile Mechanic where the owner attributed what happened to mechanical failure due to "metal fatigue and lack of lubrication." Parts retrieved from along the road indicated that they were well lubricated. Mobile Mechanic found me another drive shaft with it not being available from Spartan unavailable and 1/5 the price from Spartan. They offered to weld the damaged bell housing, not being aware of the full extent of the damage. Not knowing what to do, I started this thread here. The advice from many of you was to get my MH out of there ASAP and get it towed to a shop that could actually competently repair it. The third tow was to Milstead RV Service in Conroe, about 60 miles north of Houston, my usual service place. There, the Milstead mechanics determined the extent of damage, found unrelated items and repaired those as well. In spite of Milstead warning me that they wouldn't get to the vehicle for another week or so, they got on it the next day. On the day we picked it up, repaired, which was on July 21st, they asked us what we planned to do about the windshield. I didn't know that there was anything wrong with it. Something had caused the L one to be shattered. I hadn't noticed any cracks in it when it arrived at Milstead. The R windshield was also partially coming out. The L one looks like someone hit it from inside and the cracks are pushed out. Altogether, it's pretty obvious that the windshields were damaged from frame twisting. Being towed 3 times and then pulled into their garage bay, which tow caused the damage cannot be determined. Milstead has pictures showing that the cracks started like small cobwebs in the L lower corner and gradually spread. The total for the replacement drive shaft, the towing to Milstead (not covered by our new roadside assistance, Coach-Net, as it was from shop to shop and not a roadside breakdown) and Milstead's repair of the drive shaft-related damage comes to over $19K. This figure was reported to Mobile Mechanic, but they have refused any responsibility and have not responded to requests for their insurance carrier. Most likely, they are uninsured.


So, who has paid for all of this? We have. Our deductible is only $250. When initially towed to Milstead, I called our insurance carrier about the damage, asking for policy information as to whether we would be covered. Progressive said "no." After Milstead's repair was started, I contacted Progressive again and this time filed a claim after one of responses in this forum said that Progressive had covered a similar claim for a damaged ECM. Progressive then said that they would cover the claim, but wasn't happy that they weren't initially asked to approve the repair! That is claim #1. They finally agreed to cover $12K of the $19K. They didn't approved the tow to Milstead ($1650), but then said today that they reconsidered and said that they would. Progressive today refused to pay for the replacement drive shaft ($900 parts + $469 labor) claiming that it was caused by "mechanical failure." This is important (see next paragraph).



Progressive said that they plan to take Mobile Mechanic to court. Mobile Mechanic said the same thing, that what happened to the drive shaft was due to "mechanical failure." I told the Progressive adjuster that the decision not to cover the drive shaft due to "mechanical failure" was illogical. I said that the entire damage to the MH was mechanical failure due to the faulty installation of our original drive shaft by Mobile Mechanic. That required me to purchase a new drive shaft, which I asked to be covered. Using that same logic, I asked why they covered anything? I said that by claiming "mechanical failure" as the cause of our destroyed drive shaft, they've probably lost their case in court.


So, that brings us to claim #2, the windshields. So, I put in a claim for that a few weeks ago. We have 100% windshield coverage through, you guessed it, Progressive. The windshields were last replaced in 2018 when the L one cracked just as we were lowering the hydraulic jacks in a very unlevel campground site in northern MD. The windshield gaskets, which were not in very good condition back then, were re-used. Doing some research as to why they reused the old gaskets back then, it lead us to Duncan Glass who said that their request for new gaskets by the installer for the RV Safelite network was denied by Progressive. The windshield gaskets look really chewed up. The R windshield, other than having many tiny rock dings and the gasket, looks "okay." I initially didn't ask for it to be replaced, but Duncan, the RV Safelite agent and their installer are all recommending replacement of both sides, concerned that the R one might break when it is removed. Progressive keeps asking for more pictures. Getting pictures of the rock dings isn't easy. The RV Safelite agent called me yesterday and wanted to know what the hold-up was. I told him it was Progressive. I told the Progressive adjuster what all of the glass experts recommended. If the R side breaks when they remove it, I won't have an available windshield on that side. In exasperation, I told him to do something already. I said that if they refused to approve new windshield gaskets that I would pay for them myself.


So, Progressive is ultimately the problem party here. This has been going on for over a month. If they're going to cover our claims, then do they need to do it already! Do I care if they take Mobile Mechanic to court? Not really. Do I even care if they win in court? Not any longer. Perhaps that would serve them right if they lost. Tomorrow, I'll call call our FMCA insurance agent. Maybe he can light a fire under them, but so far our support from FMCA has been nil. We've had Progressive for decades, ever since USAA stopped insuring RVs and motorcycles. I wish there was something better.

A lot of us have been following your drama and sorry you are going thru this, it could happen to any of us and we know it. I think what you should do is post this recap right on Progressive Facebook page and review pages as many social media post’ that you can find.(Instagram and others..) Share this with others considering using progressive….You might be surprised at their response when the word gets out beyond just our RV blog. Good Luck to you, Tallntrue56

[Bytesponge]

Originally Posted by jaysigel

Update 6:


First, a recap: Our 2006 Travel Supreme 38' DP blew a coolant line and overheated on July 8th, had to be towed, which "only" took FMCA's roadside assistance 15 hours to arrange in Houston, and the actual tow occurred on July 9th. A mobile mechanic was called first, arrived unprepared to do anything, recommended his shop, which was actually called "Mobile Mechanic." The drive shaft was removed by the tow truck driver and the vehicle was towed to the Mobile Mechanic shop in Houston. There, the coolant line was replaced and the drive shaft re-installed. Driving home on July 17th, we got less than 2 miles from the shop when the drive shaft came loose and destroyed the bell housing, torque converter and transmission. It was towed back to Mobile Mechanic where the owner attributed what happened to mechanical failure due to "metal fatigue and lack of lubrication." Parts retrieved from along the road indicated that they were well lubricated. Mobile Mechanic found me another drive shaft with it not being available from Spartan unavailable and 1/5 the price from Spartan. They offered to weld the damaged bell housing, not being aware of the full extent of the damage. Not knowing what to do, I started this thread here. The advice from many of you was to get my MH out of there ASAP and get it towed to a shop that could actually competently repair it. The third tow was to Milstead RV Service in Conroe, about 60 miles north of Houston, my usual service place. There, the Milstead mechanics determined the extent of damage, found unrelated items and repaired those as well. In spite of Milstead warning me that they wouldn't get to the vehicle for another week or so, they got on it the next day. On the day we picked it up, repaired, which was on July 21st, they asked us what we planned to do about the windshield. I didn't know that there was anything wrong with it. Something had caused the L one to be shattered. I hadn't noticed any cracks in it when it arrived at Milstead. The R windshield was also partially coming out. The L one looks like someone hit it from inside and the cracks are pushed out. Altogether, it's pretty obvious that the windshields were damaged from frame twisting. Being towed 3 times and then pulled into their garage bay, which tow caused the damage cannot be determined. Milstead has pictures showing that the cracks started like small cobwebs in the L lower corner and gradually spread. The total for the replacement drive shaft, the towing to Milstead (not covered by our new roadside assistance, Coach-Net, as it was from shop to shop and not a roadside breakdown) and Milstead's repair of the drive shaft-related damage comes to over $19K. This figure was reported to Mobile Mechanic, but they have refused any responsibility and have not responded to requests for their insurance carrier. Most likely, they are uninsured.


So, who has paid for all of this? We have. Our deductible is only $250. When initially towed to Milstead, I called our insurance carrier about the damage, asking for policy information as to whether we would be covered. Progressive said "no." After Milstead's repair was started, I contacted Progressive again and this time filed a claim after one of responses in this forum said that Progressive had covered a similar claim for a damaged ECM. Progressive then said that they would cover the claim, but wasn't happy that they weren't initially asked to approve the repair! That is claim #1. They finally agreed to cover $12K of the $19K. They didn't approved the tow to Milstead ($1650), but then said today that they reconsidered and said that they would. Progressive today refused to pay for the replacement drive shaft ($900 parts + $469 labor) claiming that it was caused by "mechanical failure." This is important (see next paragraph).



Progressive said that they plan to take Mobile Mechanic to court. Mobile Mechanic said the same thing, that what happened to the drive shaft was due to "mechanical failure." I told the Progressive adjuster that the decision not to cover the drive shaft due to "mechanical failure" was illogical. I said that the entire damage to the MH was mechanical failure due to the faulty installation of our original drive shaft by Mobile Mechanic. That required me to purchase a new drive shaft, which I asked to be covered. Using that same logic, I asked why they covered anything? I said that by claiming "mechanical failure" as the cause of our destroyed drive shaft, they've probably lost their case in court.


So, that brings us to claim #2, the windshields. So, I put in a claim for that a few weeks ago. We have 100% windshield coverage through, you guessed it, Progressive. The windshields were last replaced in 2018 when the L one cracked just as we were lowering the hydraulic jacks in a very unlevel campground site in northern MD. The windshield gaskets, which were not in very good condition back then, were re-used. Doing some research as to why they reused the old gaskets back then, it lead us to Duncan Glass who said that their request for new gaskets by the installer for the RV Safelite network was denied by Progressive. The windshield gaskets look really chewed up. The R windshield, other than having many tiny rock dings and the gasket, looks "okay." I initially didn't ask for it to be replaced, but Duncan, the RV Safelite agent and their installer are all recommending replacement of both sides, concerned that the R one might break when it is removed. Progressive keeps asking for more pictures. Getting pictures of the rock dings isn't easy. The RV Safelite agent called me yesterday and wanted to know what the hold-up was. I told him it was Progressive. I told the Progressive adjuster what all of the glass experts recommended. If the R side breaks when they remove it, I won't have an available windshield on that side. In exasperation, I told him to do something already. I said that if they refused to approve new windshield gaskets that I would pay for them myself.


So, Progressive is ultimately the problem party here. This has been going on for over a month. If they're going to cover our claims, then do they need to do it already! Do I care if they take Mobile Mechanic to court? Not really. Do I even care if they win in court? Not any longer. Perhaps that would serve them right if they lost. Tomorrow, I'll call call our FMCA insurance agent. Maybe he can light a fire under them, but so far our support from FMCA has been nil. We've had Progressive for decades, ever since USAA stopped insuring RVs and motorcycles. I wish there was something better.

You must have the patience of Jobe! I can't imagine anyone having to endure this catastrophe. Hope it ends well. Wishing you AND your family the best. I can't even imagine having to deal with what you have been thru. My wife would have run out of Xanax by now and demanding I sell the damn thing!

good luck

[LETMGROW]

Originally Posted by Tallntrue56

A lot of us have been following your drama and sorry you are going thru this, it could happen to any of us and we know it. I think what you should do is post this recap right on Progressive Facebook page and review pages as many social media post’ that you can find.(Instagram and others..) Share this with others considering using progressive….You might be surprised at their response when the word gets out beyond just our RV blog. Good Luck to you, Tallntrue56

Why would you lay the blame on Progressive? They had no hand in the slip shod work the shop did. The shop is responsible for making the OP whole for his losses. If he has any, his insurance company should be the respondent. Otherwise the shop's owner should bear the burden.
Plastering nasty comments all over the internet about Progressive Ins. Co. could be very counter productive and could be a legal entanglement for the OP. Read your insurance company's policy. Tell us where you found your insurance company would be responsible for a third party's actions they had nothing to do with.

[Tallntrue56]

Originally Posted by LETMGROW

Why would you lay the blame on Progressive? They had no hand in the slip shod work the shop did. The shop is responsible for making the OP whole for his losses. If he has any, his insurance company should be the respondent. Otherwise the shop's owner should bear the burden.
Plastering nasty comments all over the internet about Progressive Ins. Co. could be very counter productive and could be a legal entanglement for the OP. Read your insurance company's policy. Tell us where you found your insurance company would be responsible for a third party's actions they had nothing to do with.

You need to read jaysigel’s account of not only the faulty shop work, but how Progressive has jacked him around. It’s almost as if he’s being screwed twice. According to jaysigel, the RV drove 2 miles and the driveline came apart after he had no previous trouble with the driveshaft and they’re trying to say it was mechanical failure to get out of paying the claim.
HIS WORDS:
“ Our deductible is only $250. When initially towed to Milstead, I called our insurance carrier about the damage, asking for policy information as to whether we would be covered. Progressive said "no." After Milstead's repair was started, I contacted Progressive again and this time filed a claim after one of responses in this forum said that Progressive had covered a similar claim for a damaged ECM. Progressive then said that they would cover the claim, but wasn't happy that they weren't initially asked to approve the repair! That is claim #1. They finally agreed to cover $12K of the $19K. They didn't approved the tow to Milstead ($1650), but then said today that they reconsidered and said that they would. Progressive today refused to pay for the replacement drive shaft ($900 parts + $469 labor) claiming that it was caused by "mechanical failure." This is important (see next paragraph).



Progressive said that they plan to take Mobile Mechanic to court. Mobile Mechanic said the same thing, that what happened to the drive shaft was due to "mechanical failure." I told the Progressive adjuster that the decision not to cover the drive shaft due to "mechanical failure" was illogical. I said that the entire damage to the MH was mechanical failure due to the faulty installation of our original drive shaft by Mobile Mechanic. That required me to purchase a new drive shaft, which I asked to be covered. Using that same logic, I asked why they covered anything? I said that by claiming "mechanical failure" as the cause of our destroyed drive shaft, they've probably lost their case in court.””

The guy pays insurance so he is covered for stuff like this. The adjusters are trying to get out of paying
That’s just as slimey as the shop that did the faulty workmanship, maybe more so! I worked in automotive for more than forty years as a master technician. The driveshaft didn’t have mechanical failure 2 miles after being reinstalled! Mobile mechanic is trying to deny responsibility and Progressive is trying the same BS. Just like jaysigel states, why should they pay anything (including the driveshaft) if that’s their story. It’s the adjuster just trying to limit what they will pay, and it’s dishonest denying a valid claim. If Progressive wants to go after Mobile Mechanic that is between them and the shop. As far as posting a truthful account of what’s happened, it is just that, the truth. They need to be shamed for their dishonesty. There is a reason that Progressive is rated a C by body shops and only 3 out of 5 stars. It’s called poor customer service and the public should know!