Drive shaft destroyed after reconnection - they killed my motorhome!

[palehorse89]

Originally Posted by SmilingSam

disconnecting the drive shaft is NEVER an OPTION, IT IS MANDATORY.

and ANY mechanical monkey (even Forest Gump!) KNOWS that you MARK the drive shaft joints BEFORE any removal such that it is replaced EXACTLY how it was disconnected.

And only 2 needle cups (which should be full of grease) need to be removed to hang the drive shaft.

ALL that is needed is to drop a couple U joints held up and pull drive shaft out of transmission, then wire the drive shaft up such that it touches NOTHING rotating OR the road !! EASY and one would think OBVIOUS !

Then TOW with lots of strong safety chains and such !!

Any MH is lots of meat to sling around and is a nice MISSILE to throw at other vehicles and could easily kill innocent ppl (if that exists anymore above 16 yrs old?).

So is it the wage/hr paid for poor towing/mechanics OR is just lazy stupid UNskilled workers ? How much $ per hr hires competent workers, work that a decent high school student/grad can do ??

And imagine if something was HARD to do, how good is that surgeon you need ?? Is there a 'craigslist' to check for IN/competent surgeons/oconologists, lawyers, investment/financial, school teachers, Cops, etc ??

Pulling the driveshaft IS a option ........and not mandatory, the axles can be pulled and often are.

[twinboat]

Originally Posted by SmilingSam

disconnecting the drive shaft is NEVER an OPTION, IT IS MANDATORY.

and ANY mechanical monkey (even Forest Gump!) KNOWS that you MARK the drive shaft joints BEFORE any removal such that it is replaced EXACTLY how it was disconnected.

And only 2 needle cups (which should be full of grease) need to be removed to hang the drive shaft.

ALL that is needed is to drop a couple U joints held up and pull drive shaft out of transmission, then wire the drive shaft up such that it touches NOTHING rotating OR the road !! EASY and one would think OBVIOUS !

Then TOW with lots of strong safety chains and such !!

Any MH is lots of meat to sling around and is a nice MISSILE to throw at other vehicles and could easily kill innocent ppl (if that exists anymore above 16 yrs old?).

So is it the wage/hr paid for poor towing/mechanics OR is just lazy stupid UNskilled workers ? How much $ per hr hires competent workers, work that a decent high school student/grad can do ??

And imagine if something was HARD to do, how good is that surgeon you need ?? Is there a 'craigslist' to check for IN/competent surgeons/oconologists, lawyers, investment/financial, school teachers, Cops, etc ??

I guess you haven't pulled to many RV driveshafts.

You don't NEED to mark it. Replacing in phase is a simple thing.

It does not SLIP out of the transmission like a car, there is another flange and U joint.

The axle half shafts can be pulled, disconnecting the rear wheel hubs from the differencial.

[Argosy]

You also need a new yoke for the axle, it's beaten out where the cap moved around. I like the bolt in caps like on the trans yoke a lot better. As long as you're getting a drive shaft made and need a new axle yoke I'd change the u joint to bolt in caps.

I haven't seen a slip joint in a long time that isn't keyed, they only go together one way. And you are missing that on your lube.

If the drive shaft transmitted enough force to crack the bell housing the tranny needs to be torn down and inspected. I can't imagine the tail shaft housing isn't shot, the seal and bushing must be mutilated, who knows what that much weight going wild did inside. All that is designed to rotate smoothly in an aluminum case, all bets are off when shafts start getting slammed and jammed in every direction.

[Jthigh]

With a crack like that in the bell housing I would have the fly wheel/flex plate at the torque converter checked/replaced. Probably bent.

[mr.tommy]

Originally Posted by jaysigel

I want to thank everyone who has replied. I am overwhelmed with gratitude. I just now notified the shop not to proceed. We will obviously need to have it serviced elsewhere. I requested his insurance information.
Jay

I recommend Jamail's in the north Houston area near 1960 and the Hardy toll road area. There a big outfit. Have 13 bays.
Jamail's Auto & Truck Services
19915 Aldine Westfield Rd, Houston, TX 77073
Jamail's Fleet Services – Trusted Fleet Repairs & Maintenance
1-281-443-8055
Roy is the owner and a great guy.

[Argosy]

Where ever you end up you need to make sure they're willing to write a statement of why you had the failure. The shop that screwed up is already BSing, you have to counter that with facts to get paid by their insurance company. Best would be if you could get their adjuster to look at it ASAP.

[jacwjames]

Originally Posted by twinboat

I guess you haven't pulled to many RV driveshafts.

You don't NEED to mark it. Replacing in phase is a simple thing.

It does not SLIP out of the transmission like a car, there is another flange and U joint.

The axle half shafts can be pulled, disconnecting the rear wheel hubs from the differencial.

X2 on this


But evidently this is a more common problem then what you would think. A good mechanic can put in a driveshaft correctly but when I had to have my motorhome towed to a Cummins shop I drove it home and knew something was wrong and found the driveshaft out of phase and had to pull it and correct.


So this a word of caution that if you have to have your coach pulled you make sure the driveshaft is in phase.

[jaysigel]

Update 1:


After reading the above excellent (but sometimes confusing) advice on Tuesday before midnight, I couldn't sleep at all. I was really upset. I got on the phone at 7 AM and arranged for my MH to be towed to Milstead RV Service in Conroe, TX yesterday AM, Wednesday. Milstead has their own towing service and the tow cost half as much as the others at 4 times the distance ($1650 for 60 miles). I am a prior customer there and, in retrospect, I obviously should have gone there to start with. They have an excellent reputation and pull engines out of RVs frequently and can do transmission work and anything else required. They are a large facility with many MHs there. The tow driver removed the new drive shaft installed by "the shop" (I can't name that shop here, but "the shop" always refers to the original repair place and not Mistead).


I didn't expect Milstead to get my MH in a service bay until several weeks, but they got right on it today and called me a little while ago (now, that's service!). There was some confusion about the new drive shaft. I told Milstead that it was supposed to have been fabricated and that the MH never really used it, that the MH was never moved with it in, since the engine wouldn't start. Milstead said that it had a date on it of 7/21/21. The shop asked me on 7/23/21 about a fabricated drive shaft. That means that this one was not specifically fabricated for me, that it just happened to be available. But it was 1/5 the cost of drive shaft from Spartan that wouldn't have been even available for 29 weeks. Milstead doesn't know if it's the correct drive shaft for the MH at this time -- it might be. What Milstead found was a huge crack around the bell housing into the engine supports. The starter motor gears were wedged into the flywheel. Milstead said they were surprised that the transmission didn't fall out while it was being towed. They are removing the transmission and torque converter and will suspend the engine by chains while doing so. They found some other issues unrelated to this, like dry-rotting air bags. I told Milstead to keep the unrelated expenses separate and that payment was not contingent on how things worked out with the shop owner.



My basic understanding from all of your replies above is that, one way or another, the original, stock drive shaft was not properly reinstalled and when it tore off, all of this damage occurred.


I relayed all of this information to the shop owner. Prior to getting towed out yesterday, I found him under the engine area taking pictures, which was not a good sign. I asked him to notify his insurance carrier, assuming that he has one. To repeat from my original posting, the shop owner has stated that the drive shaft failure was a result of metal fatigue and lack of lubrication, insisting it was my fault and not his. I asked him repeatedly, via texts, to work with me, told him that would be the least expensive way for him. He has not told me who his insurance carrier is. As this is a liability case (and being a retired physician gives me some experience with liability insurance cases), I warned him that not contacting his insurance carrier would be a very bad mistake since they will want to keep this out of court and will try to limit their financial liability. Adding lawyers to this mix will only make it more expensive for him. I asked him to reimburse me for the drive shaft and its installation, and I also asked him to reimburse me for the tow to Milstead. So far, the shop owner has chosen to ignore me.


And that's the story so far. I will continue to keep you-all updated until things get boring. Your special interest in this situation really makes me feel that I'm not alone. It's more than just a forum. Everyone, thank you.

[donr103]

Demand new replacement parts.. don't forget they owe you for LOSS OF USE while waiting on back order parts.. that is about 110,000.00.. and then diminished value. BIG BUCKS.. THEN ALL THE INCONVENIENCE..... so you need lots of pictures.. and recording.. this is too big for you to handle.. get your lawyer in on this now.. sorry for your lose.. if you have room.. get it towed to your home now.. if not someone else.. hold on to it until everything is settled.. no.. and I mean no repair will make this right again.. get your own appraiser out.. and get market value now on it.. because insurance adjuster will burn you on it. Good luck..

[SmilingSam]

I have pulled and replaced U joints on a 4 piece driveshaft, have had my old mh towed, so know a little something, was NOT a truck driver or mechanic, had an office job as Elec Engineer and later a Software design engineer - so no NOT an expert at driveshafts OR towing.

BUT BUT was responding to the OP statement of having a CHOICE to disconnect the drive shaft and for me at least, disconnecting drive shaft is SO SO SO much more straight forward and EFFECTIVE.

You left off an option, you could 'DOLLY' the whole mh or trailer it OR flat bed it OR likely other things than SIMPLY disconnect the driveshaft.

disconnecting is MANDATORY for me, you can deal with a much more complicated process of pulling axles, 30 min job for driveshaft pulling, how long to reconnect axles and would you have to refill diff also ??

So you do your solution and I will take the direct route and disconnect driveshaft on both ends - diff and trans, i have grease to re-grease the U joint bearings !!

Enjoy your axle MESS !!

ps: would surely NOT trust a tow driver to remove/disconnect my axles, (would he even have the correct tools to do it????) too many unskilled in the tow/mechanic biz & too many chances of messing up - I have had idiots who think wheel nut covers are actual wheel nuts, used a pneumatic on wheel nut covers!!!, that is as simple as things get & they failed and mess up 16 covers at that - zero trust unless i watch and agree to do a thing - called being careful and maybe smarter than the next guy - you have never heard of 'murphys law either' ?!!

Originally Posted by twinboat

I guess you haven't pulled to many RV driveshafts.

You don't NEED to mark it. Replacing in phase is a simple thing.

It does not SLIP out of the transmission like a car, there is another flange and U joint.

The axle half shafts can be pulled, disconnecting the rear wheel hubs from the differencial.

[GypsyR]

Weird. I haven't seen a single thing in the original posting even hinting that the person who towed the motorhome did anything wrong at all. It was all laid on the shop it was towed TO.
In many cases pulling the axles is quicker and easier than messing with a driveshaft. The "correct tools" would be a socket and a battery power impact wrench. That's all I need anyway. Either way one would hope the person doing the work knows their job. I've been towing vehicles for thirty years and still am. Annoys the crap out of me when some goober acts like it's this gray headed guy's first day on the job when I tow their vehicle. Weird how often it happens. That said, I know most of the guys from the local tow companies and have worked alongside of many of them at times. A couple I trust, most are OK, and a few are idiots.

Never seen an RV on a tow dolly. Is that a thing? It would require "oversize" signs and permits for sure if it is.

Any time you remove the bearing caps from a u-joint there's a good chance of losing or displacing the needle bearings inside. So it's better practice if possible to leave them in place. It's not even necessary to remove them from the u-joint during disassembly if you are careful. Keeping them in place after removal is usually done with multiple wraps of tape. Electrical tape seems to work best and leaves the least residue. Some folks will wrap a rag around the joint and use whatever tape they have on hand which works quite well.

[RealNiceTent]

Gypsy is right, pulling the axles is usually easier, a little lube may be lost but when done correctly, with cover plates for the hubs to keep the oil in, faster and cleaner. I also drove tow in my 35 plus years in the auto repair business, and did so in a professional manner to improve the public impression of the industry when I could.



As for Sam, there are a lot of things I can say about your tirade and damn near did! Your attitude towards working people sucks. The average tow truck that can handle even a small motor-home is an investment of a minimum of a quarter million dollars, and when you start getting into the big heavies that can take on the big coaches the ticket frequently goes over a million. Then you have good ol' insurance, the liability rates for a tow company are staggering even if you have never had a claim. There are two reasons not to put an idiot in the seat. You watched too many 1980's 20/20 staged expose pieces where they portrayed tow operators as imbeciles and thieves with their hidden camera "footage".



I am going to close with this:
If you have to have your coach towed make sure the driveshaft is disconnected or the axles pulled! If the tow operator is not willing to drop the driveshaft or pull the axles get another company! The transmission has to have the engine running to drive the pump in the transmission to provide proper lubrication to the output shaft that is not provided when being towed.

[jaysigel]

As far as the tow is concerned, the drive shaft was removed during the 1st tow and those 2 little caps, pictured in the box, were not removed. Those, not knowing what they were, I picked up from the street after the drive shaft was destroyed. During the 2nd tow, the drive shaft was already destroyed and there was nothing to remove. During the 3rd tow, the new drive shaft, never used, was removed.



To repeat from my Update 1 posting, my MH was towed from the original shop to Milstead RV Service in Conroe, TX just 3 days ago. They also have their own towing company. What I learned from the Milstead towing people was that it was not proper to tow the MH by use of the fork-like hooks on the A-frame. They said that could have resulted in breaking the arms. Instead, Milstead used cradles on the front tires and said that was the proper way to tow it. For the 2 first tows, those tow trucks did not have that equipment. Milstead also charged me $1650 to be towed 60 miles as opposed to $2380 for the first tow of 15 miles and the $1100 for the last tow of 4 miles. Milstead used a medium duty tow truck.


We're heading to the legal phase next, waiting for the damage estimates first, so nothing new to report in this continuing saga as it's Saturday.

[amosnandy]

If you have not already, get your insurance company involved. I’m an adjuster, and while we would not cover the initial coolant leak, damage resulting from mishandling is covered, less your deductible.. we would then go after the shop to be reimbursed. There is liability involved here on the part of the shop and that includes damage due to faulty repairs.