Electric motorhomes. This GM chassis almost looks like a motorhome. Getting closer.

[LERD]

Originally Posted by radar

Power companies want to sell power. They’ll figure it out. And if they don’t people will produce their own. Nice advantage of electricity over gas. You can produce your own in many places. Solar and power walls are game changes. If a power company wants to get stupid and charge to much people will just generate their own.

All JMHO.

That's true, you can make your own electricity. But most of us are limited by the resources to do so. I have a solar heater for my pool on the roof. But it can only be so big, so I can't rely on it totaly. Plus, I don't have the square footage on top of my roof for a solar panel that would supply juice to my pool pump, let alone the whole house. So I use my natural gas heater to get the water where we want it, and solar heater to maintain it.

Many have solar panels on the roof of the rig. But very few can power the rig completly with those panels. Will that change? I'm sure it will. And the change keeps happening faster and faster. But it takes a lot of energy to move an RV, any RV, gas. diesel or electric. They need to figure out the supply problem first

[radar]

Originally Posted by LERD

That's true, you can make your own electricity. But most of us are limited by the resources to do so. I have a solar heater for my pool on the roof. But it can only be so big, so I can't rely on it totaly. Plus, I don't have the square footage on top of my roof for a solar panel that would supply juice to my pool pump, let alone the whole house. So I use my natural gas heater to get the water where we want it, and solar heater to maintain it.

Many have solar panels on the roof of the rig. But very few can power the rig completly with those panels. Will that change? I'm sure it will. And the change keeps happening faster and faster. But it takes a lot of energy to move an RV, any RV, gas. diesel or electric. They need to figure out the supply problem first

It does. And my reference was more a general statement aimed at EV’s not ERV’s. My bad for not verifying. But referring to just EV’s again, a typical daily commute takes 6 to 8 kw of power and that is pretty easy to produce. Yes, power companies will have to change and modernize to meet the need but power companies the world over are not resisting EV adaption but rather encouraging it. I’m sure they will find away to stay competitive.

[Keith55]

Originally Posted by awol50

I read all this wishful thing of electric rvs taking over. Yet, to my knowledge not a single one is manufactured today.
Could that change? I suppose so. Electric technology has been around at least 10 years. Currently 2-3% of car sales and that is with huge tax credits.
0% of rv sales. Yesterday, today and for at least the foreseeable future. Im not holding my breath waiting for that to change.

Keep in mind there is a tipping point which is fairly low where people switch technologies. Think of when the iPhone had 2-3%. Or electric lights has 2-3%. Or car's when they were 2-3% compared to the horse and walking.

Google the amount of sustainable power that is being deployed each year. exponential growth!

[radar]

Originally Posted by Keith55

Keep in mind there is a tipping point which is fairly low where people switch technologies. Think of when the iPhone had 2-3%. Or electric lights has 2-3%. Or car's when they were 2-3% compared to the horse and walking.

Google the amount of sustainable power that is being deployed each year. exponential growth!

And even car manufacturers are getting surprised by the size of the market. Porsche (part of Volkswagen) was hesitant to start an EV line as they thought their customer base would want to stay loyal to the vroom vroom noisy stinky gas motors. Then a couple years ago they came out with the Taycan. And now it is there number one selling model. And within a year will probably sell more than all their other models combined. They now have plans to stop developing ICE motors past 2026 and just run with the technology they have at that point. The bulk of their development and production will change to BEV. Will other manufacturers switch? Who knows. Toyota is sticking with gas or hydrogen and a few hybrids. We’ll see how that plays out.

From what I read in some European countries gas stations are starting to get shut down so the ease of finding a station might start to decrease. You can’t fill a gas Or hydrogen car in your driveway but you can with electric. At some point convenience will play more of a role.

I think one of the reasons EV adaption in North America is so low is no one is producing trucks yet. But that is about to change in a big way, this year. Guess we’ll see.

Interesting times.

[mr.tommy]

Originally Posted by awol50

RV parks cant handle that type of electric load. Most can barely handle existing load.

I doubt you will see many parks spend the money to upgrade their electric grid to give freeloaders electricity.

And expect huge premiums over gas/diesel units to buy. Fuel costs for gas/ diesel are peanuts compared to overall rv ownership costs.

2X.
In addition to this...lets talk about just the practicability and affordability for RV owners…

As I have said before in other posts I’m a big fan of youtube. I watch and read a lot of what people say in the comments section of RV videos. I was watching a really good RV video recently on how to INSULATE, HEAT & PROTECT your RV to help stay warm in the cold winters and cooler in the summer. Below are just a couple of many, many comments folks made on the outrageous costs they’re paying now for electricity in RV parks. Now add to that a charging station for a 30amp or 50amp coach all the time—even if the CG’s upgraded their grid—very few FTers would be able to afford the electric bill alone. I could go on and on here listing other things too, but the bottom line is always cost vs demand and over all affordability. If there’s no demand for big RV’s that cost a small fortune to just plug in at a CG, most manufacturers are not going to build them.

Oh there will probably be a few smaller electric RV units built for those short weekend trips, for people who have that extra disposable income, but for 90% the FTers in big rigs that we see all the time and have gotten to know over the years, no way. They couldn't afford going FT just on overall electrical cost alone. Heck some states can't even meet current electricity demand now. Repeat after me, "brown outs".

Here’s just two comments I skimmed off YT from what people are paying this winter just to heat their rig….
I'm being charged 17cents per kw hr. Just using a 1500watt floor heater and a 750watt floor heater at 20deg average ambient temp was costing me $400 a month electric bill alone. And that was turning off the hot water heater every day.

My electric bill came up to $220 just for electric this month

NOTE: Yes they use propane too. This is just their electricity costs NOW.

[radar]

Originally Posted by mr.tommy

In addition to this...lets talk about just the practicability and affordability for RV owners…

As I have said before in other posts I’m a big fan of youtube. I watch and read a lot of what people say in the comments section of RV videos. I was watching a really good RV video recently on how to INSULATE, HEAT & PROTECT to help stay warm in the cold winters and cooler in the summer. Below are just a couple of many, many comments folks made on the outrageous costs they’re paying now for electricity in RV parks. Now add to that a charging station for a 30amp or 50amp coach all the time—even if the CG’s upgraded their grid—very few folks will be able to afford the electric bill alone. I could go on and on here listing other things too, but the bottom line is always cost vs demand and over all affordability. If there’s no demand for big RV’s that cost a small fortune to just plug in at a CG, most manufacturers are not going to build them.

Oh there will probably be a few smaller RV units built for those short weekend trips, for people who have that extra disposable income, but for 90% the FTers in big rigs that we see all the time and have gotten to know over the years, no way. They couldn't afford going FT just on overall electrical cost alone. Heck some states can't even meet electricity demand now. Repeat after me, "brown outs".

Here’s just two comments I skimmed off YT from what people are paying this winter just to heat they’re rig….
I'm being charged 17cents per kw hr. Just using a 1500watt floor heater and a 750watt floor heater at 20deg average ambient temp was costing me $400 a month electric bill alone. And that was turning off the hot water heater every day.

My electric bill came up to $220 just for electric this month

NOTE: Yes they use propane too. This is their electricity costs NOW.

Those costs would be there regardless of the motive drivetrain. Heat, hot water, cooking. And there are already coaches that are full electric.

As far as motive fuel sources, if your vehicles motive fuel is electricity then your gas/diesel bill goes down and your electricity bill goes up. For example, one of our neighbours in our town house community has about the same commute as us. He wanted to compare power bills. Our power bill is about 24 dollars higher than theirs and we have been an EV only household for over 5 years. . But they spend about 155 dollars a month on gas. As well they spend money on oil changes. They have since replaced one of their vehicles with an EV.

The math is different for different people and scenarios. Campground charging won’t be as cheap as charging at home, nor should it be as the campground operator should be using this new revenue stream as an opportunity to make money. But personally, in my opinion, ERV’s shouldn’t increase operating expenses in either short or long term. They will come at a premium purchase price for some time though. Tesla 1/2 tons vary from 40,000 to 70,000 depending on the trim, and if you are pulling a trailer you are going to want the $ 70,000 version. I suspect other manufacturers will be similar.

All JMHO.

[Arch Hoagland]

Hey radar I was wondering if you saw this news today about Tesla putting a tow hitch on the model 3:

https://electrek.co/2021/01/20/tesla...north-america/

[radar]

Originally Posted by Arch Hoagland

Hey radar I was wondering if you saw this news today about Tesla putting a tow hitch on the model 3:

https://electrek.co/2021/01/20/tesla...north-america/

I did but thanks. It’s not so much that I want Tesla to put a hitch on our car. E-trailer has a hidden hitch that works pretty slick and the Tesla model 3 comes ready from the factory for the hitch and harness. But it would be nice for them to put the rating on the North American cars like they have on the European cars. They are rated for 990 kg and 100 kg hitch weight. Plenty for what we need.

But yah. We’ll look at it when the time comes.

Thank you.

[mr.tommy]

Originally Posted by radar

Those costs would be there regardless of the motive drivetrain. Heat, hot water, cooking. And there are already coaches that are full electric.

That's right but I think you missed this part of what I wrote:
Now add to that a charging station for a 30amp or 50amp coach all the time—even if the CG’s upgraded their grid—very few folks will be able to afford the electric bill alone.

[Isaac-1]

I think a lot of people are under estimating how long it will take to upgrade infrastructure, particularly rural electrical infrastructure to support charging. These small delivery truck chassis that we are currently talking about have a 125-150KW battery, at full output a 50 amp RV outlet can supply 9,600 watts of power (including the mandatory NEC derating), even assuming all house loads are turned off in the RV we are talking 12-15 hours to fully charge from an existing 50 amp RV outlet. The problem here is that NO current RV park electrical system is designed to supply full output to every outlet at the same time. I have not looked up the current guidelines on such things, but I suspect it is somewhere around 1/4 to 1/6 capacity, this extends to the wiring coming into the RV park from the power company, and the rural tap lines running from the substations. All are sized for supplying only a fraction of the total max capacity to any one point at any one time.


Lets compare this level of infrastructure need to the need for rural broadband wired internet, wired broadband internet has been available in cities and towns across the country for 20 to 25 years now, yet in many places just a few miles out of town the only options for internet is wireless service, if any is available at all.

[radar]

Originally Posted by mr.tommy

That's right but I think you missed this part of what I wrote:
Now add to that a charging station for a 30amp or 50amp coach all the time—even if the CG’s upgraded their grid—very few folks will be able to afford the electric bill alone.

I see where you are going. But do you think it would raise the daily cost of RVing that much by using electricity to heat water and heat the coach? Honestly I have never looked at it from that angle so don’t know. We tend to run our water heater of electricity anyway although we use propane when it gets too cold for our electrically heated floors and two x 300 watt heaters to keep up. (Doesn’t take much to do that).

Quite honestly we are rarely on metered power when touring so I’m probably out of touch with that.

Cheers.

[RossWilliams]

Originally Posted by Keith55

Agreed. Hybrids add a lot of complexity not needed today. Ranges have improved enough you can drop the internal combustion engine.

Charging stations are popping up everywhere but the one I like the most is in the 220 outlet in my garage. People always ask me where I charge my Tesla. I jokingly say I have one of those modern houses with electricity. They cant seem to get it out of their head that you have to take a car somewhere to "fill it up". Nope just plug it in at your house and you never have to deal with the friendly gas stations around town again!

I don't have a 220 outlet in my garage. I have a PHEV with a rated electric range of about 25 miles and it takes 12 hours to charge it using the 120 volt outlet at 8 amps. I live in northern Minnesota where temperatures get below 0F, so the actual range is likely about half that.



As I understand it, even a Tesla fast charger normally only takes it to 80% charge. So your actual range in severe cold with the heater on is going to be half that 80% unless you are willing to wait a lot longer for a full charge.



Most of the folks that own an electric car are in "hybrid households". They have another car available that burns fossil fuel. I call my PHEV our "coal burner" since that is the primary source of electricity here at night. My guess is that Eeventually charging will be available everywhere and people will charge as they go. But as of now, there are about three charging stations within 20 miles, hybrids are still a good option for many of us who don't commute long trips every day in our SOV.

[radar]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

I don't have a 220 outlet in my garage. I have a PHEV with a rated electric range of about 25 miles and it takes 12 hours to charge it using the 120 volt outlet at 8 amps. I live in northern Minnesota where temperatures get below 0F, so the actual range is likely about half that.



As I understand it, even a Tesla fast charger normally only takes it to 80% charge. So your actual range in severe cold with the heater on is going to be half that 80% unless you are willing to wait a lot longer for a full charge.



Most of the folks that own an electric car are in "hybrid households". They have another car available that burns fossil fuel. I call my PHEV our "coal burner" since that is the primary source of electricity here at night. My guess is that Eeventually charging will be available everywhere and people will charge as they go. But as of now, there are about three charging stations within 20 miles, hybrids are still a good option for many of us who don't commute long trips every day in our SOV.

Fast chargers or Superchargers charge to 100 percent just like any other charger. But the last 10 percent slows down considerably.

We typically lose about a third ish of range in Minus 10 or so. EPA says gas cars lose about 1/2 that in similar conditions.

Most of the EV households around here are straight EV except those with a truck.

We are an EV only household...sort of...other than that big diesel pusher thing. .

[RossWilliams]

Originally Posted by Keith55

Agreed. Hybrids add a lot of complexity not needed today. Ranges have improved enough you can drop the internal combustion engine.

Charging stations are popping up everywhere but the one I like the most is in the 220 outlet in my garage. People always ask me where I charge my Tesla. I jokingly say I have one of those modern houses with electricity. They cant seem to get it out of their head that you have to take a car somewhere to "fill it up". Nope just plug it in at your house and you never have to deal with the friendly gas stations around town again!

I don't have a 220 outlet in my garage. I have a PHEV with a rated electric range of about 25 miles and it takes 12 hours to charge it using the 120 volt outlet at 8 amps. I can use a faster charger, but as of now, there are about three charging stations within 20 miles. I live in northern Minnesota where temperatures get below 0 F, so the actual range is likely about half that 25 miles. I call my PHEV our "coal burner" since that is the primary source of electricity here at night. But hybrids are still a good option for many of us who don't do long commutes of predictable length every day in our SOV.



As I understand it, even a Tesla fast charger normally only takes its battery to 80% charge. So your actual range in severe cold with the heater on is going to be more like 40% of the rated range, unless you are willing to wait a lot longer for a full charge. Most of the folks that own an electric car now are in "hybrid households" like us. They have another car available that burns fossil fuel. Ours is a class B RV.