First Time Buyer's Guide for New and/or Used RVs?

[Jack Parker]

That's very good advice for first timers, thank you.

Originally Posted by theoldwizard

Take at least 2 trips in rental units. First one should be a weekend close to home. Second one at least 5 days and at least 100 miles of driving.

Also, buy a 2-4:year old unit. Try it for a year before buying anything new.

[Isaac-1]

Don't get too caught up in planning the small details and doing modifications until you have spent some time living in the RV, I know I am prone to doing that myself and as a result I have obsessed over which this or that accessory to buy, only to then almost never use it.



A case in point is shortly after buying our coach i bought a Sanicon Tank Buddy which is a macerator pump in a tool box which allow dumping black and gray tanks using a garden hose size hose into clean out plugs, toilets, etc. since buying it nearly 7 years ago I have yet to find a need for it, have never been in a place where I had a place to use it, and could not get to a regular dump station before needing to dump my tanks.


Secondly the price of an RV does not dictate ones level of enjoyment, I bought our current coach in 2016 when it was 14 years old and paid a bit over $20,000, since then I have average $2,000-$3,000 per year in maintenance, repairs and upgrades ranging from new front ball joints and coil springs, to rear helper air bags, tires, Lithium batteries, and most recently a new roof top air conditioner when the original unit died a couple of month ago, next will likely be upgrading the 4 nine year old 100 watt solar panels to a set of 4 305 watt panels. The coach is now 22 years old and I have no intention of replacing it until I have to as when I go to RV shows, or visit used RV dealers I see nothing I want more than the coach I already own regardless of the price. This is not to say mine is perfect, it has any number of design and handling flaws, but so do all the new ones, they just may be different flaws.


As to what to look for before buying, inspect, inspect, inspect, and if you see any signs of water leaks, stains, anywhere inside, run away. Rot from water penetration is by far the number one killer of all types of RV's, it does not matter if they are 20 years old, or brand new. A few years ago I saw a brand new small travel trailer which had sat on the sales lot for several months whose roof was entirely rotted out due to some worker at the factory not using enough roof sealant around the roof vents, the surprising part was due to its plastic style ceiling liner there were not visible water stains anywhere on the ceiling, and you had to look in the cabinets to see where the water was causing the wall liner to show spots. The trailer ended up being a total write off.

[SergioP]

Here’s what happens to just about everyone that buys an RV.

You think you know what you want. You buy it. Use it for a time(6months-2yrs whatever) you find things you like and hate. So now you begin looking for one with more likes than hates.

A floor plan that works for you is #1. Storage is probably #2 especially if full timing. Then it’s power, generator, batteries, solar, etc.

If you aren’t a handyman, it’s going be expensive paying for repairs. Plus the time it takes waiting for it to be repaired. Believe me things break and need fixing. Don’t think because you buy new and it has a warranty that it will be fixed correctly the first time.

Lots of good tips videos here https://youtube.com/@NationalRVTrainingAcademy

There are very few well made RV’s. Coach House, Hoosier Custom Cruiser, Phoenix Cruiser, Sportsmobile, are a few.

Check out Advanced-rv.com if you want an RV custom built to your plans/layout. Wait time might be too long though.

[Jack Parker]

Originally Posted by SergioP

Here’s what happens to just about everyone that buys an RV.

You think you know what you want. You buy it. Use it for a time(6months-2yrs whatever) you find things you like and hate. So now you begin looking for one with more likes than hates.

A floor plan that works for you is #1. Storage is probably #2 especially if full timing. Then it’s power, generator, batteries, solar, etc.

I know this is true because I've seen this happen with 99% of the people I watched and talked to, whether it's a van for van life, or an RV. Some folks go through a different RV every year or two. Part of that is lack of planning or even knowing themselves and what they want.

Personally, I know myself. I've lived around the world in all kinds of conditions, everything from very nice to homelessness. In my 57 years, my needs have rarely changed. I have a lot of requirements for my RV but, once I'm in one, no matter how it may come across, I'll settled and content. I may make a modification here or there but I won't be changing rigs unless I end up with a certified lemon.

If you aren’t a handyman, it’s going be expensive paying for repairs. Plus the time it takes waiting for it to be repaired. Believe me things break and need fixing. Don’t think because you buy new and it has a warranty that it will be fixed correctly the first time.

Other than a few Must Haves, regular maintenance (not the typical American style of drive it til it breaks and then fix it) was the first thing given a healthy budget. After all, it's not just my vehicle, it's my home for at least a year.

Lots of good tips videos here https://youtube.com/@NationalRVTrainingAcademy

Bookmarked and will definitely watch! Thanks!

There are very few well made RV’s. Coach House, Hoosier Custom Cruiser, Phoenix Cruiser, Sportsmobile, are a few.

I'm still getting my bearings with what's considered "well made" because a lot of folks talk about their favorite RVs but it's not always with facts and statistics, but emotions. Emotions aren't facts and that can take awhile to sort out when doing research. Phoenix Cruiser is a common name that pops-up so I've started paying more attention to them.

Coachman and Tiffin (though I like aspects of Tiffins) tend to be on the naughty list.

I'm excited to look into Hoosier Custom Cruiser. That's a name I've not heard of yet. What are your thoughts on the Ekko (apart from the dismal bathroom and the oversized, clunky rooftop A/C?

Check out Advanced-rv.com if you want an RV custom built to your plans/layout. Wait time might be too long though.

I just learned about them yesterday, actually. What I don't like is that they're all (or mostly, can't remember) on Mercedes Benz chassis. I'm still weighing out the pros and cons of which is right for me, leaning towards Ford. The other thing I don't like is that they don't let you try your hand at building anything on their website as a trial run. In order to do anything, you have to call them. I love the idea of Advanced RV and will seriously consider them, but I don't respect sales tactics of forced contact to even learn anything.

[Jack Parker]

Originally Posted by Isaac-1

Don't get too caught up in planning the small details and doing modifications until you have spent some time living in the RV, I know I am prone to doing that myself and as a result I have obsessed over which this or that accessory to buy, only to then almost never use it.

Completely understandable. That's why most of my modifications are on a separate list for later, once I get experience with space, weight, and need. My immediate non-negotiables to be done as quickly as possible are the incinerating toilet and 50 gallon fresh water tank. If those aren't possible, I won't be buying at all.

A case in point is shortly after buying our coach i bought a Sanicon Tank Buddy which is a macerator pump in a tool box which allow dumping black and gray tanks using a garden hose size hose into clean out plugs, toilets, etc. since buying it nearly 7 years ago I have yet to find a need for it, have never been in a place where I had a place to use it, and could not get to a regular dump station before needing to dump my tanks.

Personally, in my own life, when I buy something I end up never using or needing, I call it my "Stupid Tax." My rule is to give it away, never to sell it. When you do this two or three times, you learn to shop smarter. We live in a world where folks love their stuff. I do not. I love owning only what's essential and that I use on a weekly basis. That will carry over into RV living.

Secondly the price of an RV does not dictate ones level of enjoyment, I bought our current coach in 2016 when it was 14 years old and paid a bit over $20,000, since then I have average $2,000-$3,000 per year in maintenance, repairs and upgrades ranging from new front ball joints and coil springs, to rear helper air bags, tires, Lithium batteries, and most recently a new roof top air conditioner when the original unit died a couple of month ago, next will likely be upgrading the 4 nine year old 100 watt solar panels to a set of 4 305 watt panels. The coach is now 22 years old and I have no intention of replacing it until I have to as when I go to RV shows, or visit used RV dealers I see nothing I want more than the coach I already own regardless of the price. This is not to say mine is perfect, it has any number of design and handling flaws, but so do all the new ones, they just may be different flaws.

I agree. In fact, the general rule as far as I've experienced, is the exact opposite. The best things in life that truly matter and give real contentment and satisfaction, are cheap or free. I don't fall for gimmicks, eye-candy, false promises, hashtags, trends, or what's popular. I know how to think for myself and like what I like because I like it... not because of any of the things I listed.


[/QUOTE]As to what to look for before buying, inspect, inspect, inspect, and if you see any signs of water leaks, stains, anywhere inside, run away. Rot from water penetration is by far the number one killer of all types of RV's, it does not matter if they are 20 years old, or brand new. A few years ago I saw a brand new small travel trailer which had sat on the sales lot for several months whose roof was entirely rotted out due to some worker at the factory not using enough roof sealant around the roof vents, the surprising part was due to its plastic style ceiling liner there were not visible water stains anywhere on the ceiling, and you had to look in the cabinets to see where the water was causing the wall liner to show spots. The trailer ended up being a total write off.[/QUOTE]

This is still what I'm hoping someone will be kind enough to explain in detail. I don't care about the eye-candy and luxuries in an RV. When I'm touring them, I will look at the overall layout. If the layout isn't right, the rest of the tour will be out of superficial curiosity but it won't be considered.

But, HOW do I inspect it? If I built my own van, I would know where all the seams, nails, screws, fasteners, pipes, sealants, connections, etc, are all located and could easily keep an eye on them over time as the van jostles down the road. But, in an RV, I have no idea what to look for or where to look for them.

In a van build, I would know the weak points for rodents, snakes and other pests to enter and could prevent it. I don't know where to look for these things in an RV. (This may not concern others, but since I plan to boondock 99% of the time, it's a concern for me and I believe in preventative measures instead of taking care of a problem before it arises.

I want to know where seals are so I can double check them and seal them better if needed, even before any leaks occur. Again, preventative measures.

How do I recognize if something is poorly constructed, not what it should be, or is missing? These are all the kinds of things I need to know before any final walkthrough of ANY name brand RV especially.

[SergioP]

Originally Posted by Jack Parker

I'm excited to look into Hoosier Custom Cruiser. That's a name I've not heard of yet. What are your thoughts on the Ekko (apart from the dismal bathroom and the oversized, clunky rooftop A/C?

Hoosier Custom Cruiser are ex Phoenix Cruiser employees that started their own company.

The Ekko had some shower drain problems with the first year models. Most people rate the build quality as average. There are a couple Ekko Facebook groups that you could get some info from.

A couple other nice RV’s are Leisure Travel, and Pleasure Way. Wait times for new ones are long though, like 12+ months.

[Jack Parker]

The Hoosiers didn't really do anything for me. Will be examining the Phoenix Cruisers next. They're really the last model I have to check out.

I wish I could look through Facebook groups for the EKKO but I don't use Facebook. Never registered with any social media. I've spent the entire day today examining the EKKO. I have to say, I love it. It's not everything I wanted but it has enough of what I do love that I'm willing to compromise! Most of the things I don't like are easy modifications and one or two larger projects that would make it fit me to a T.

LTV was my first love. It's not the long wait that's putting me off for the Wonder RL I wanted. The customer service issues people are having are red flags for me. Folks have problems getting warrantied items fixed. I'm sure lots of folks don't have any issues with LTV but, this mixed with the long wait time for what I want is what takes them off the table for me.

I have to say. Right now, I'm leaning very heavily towards the EKKO.

Originally Posted by SergioP

Hoosier Custom Cruiser are ex Phoenix Cruiser employees that started their own company.

The Ekko had some shower drain problems with the first year models. Most people rate the build quality as average. There are a couple Ekko Facebook groups that you could get some info from.

A couple other nice RV’s are Leisure Travel, and Pleasure Way. Wait times for new ones are long though, like 12+ months.

[Isaac-1]

Let me ask, why do you want an incinerating toilet? I ask because you say it is non negotiable. As to the 50 gallons of fresh water, for boon docking I would call that a minimum, my coach has 80 gallons of fresh water, and I often wish it had more.


As I see it an incinerating toilet is just trading the need to dump black tanks with the need to resupply propane, while not removing the need to dump gray water. From the specs I have seen it appears most incinerating toilets consume between 1/4 to 1/2 pound of propane per flush depending on if it is #1 or #2, google suggest the average American flushes 5.5 times per day, so lets call that circa 2.5 pounds of propane per day, there are about 4.25 pound of propane per gallon and most smaller motorhomes have propane tanks between 12-24 gallons in size, with newer coaches tending towards smaller tanks. Given the likely need to also use propane to heat water, cook, run refrigerator, etc. lets budget 5 gallons (21.5 pounds) of propane per propane tank refill to incinerating toilet use. At 2.5 pounds of propane per day down the toilet, ans 21.5 pound supply ration that puts you going in search of a propane refill once every 9 days. I have a 40 gallon black tank on my coach, and can easily go a week between needing to find a dump station when traveling solo.

[Jack Parker]

Originally Posted by Isaac-1

Let me ask, why do you want an incinerating toilet? I ask because you say it is non negotiable. As to the 50 gallons of fresh water, for boon docking I would call that a minimum, my coach has 80 gallons of fresh water, and I often wish it had more.

I have a serious aversion to dealing with sewage. Projectile gag reflex. I have since I was a kid.

I agree about the 50 gallons of fresh water being absolute minimum. That's why 99% of the mainstream RVs just wouldn't suit me in the timeframe I would need one.

As I see it an incinerating toilet is just trading the need to dump black tanks with the need to resupply propane, while not removing the need to dump gray water. From the specs I have seen it appears most incinerating toilets consume between 1/4 to 1/2 pound of propane per flush depending on if it is #1 or #2, google suggest the average American flushes 5.5 times per day, so lets call that circa 2.5 pounds of propane per day, there are about 4.25 pound of propane per gallon and most smaller motorhomes have propane tanks between 12-24 gallons in size, with newer coaches tending towards smaller tanks. Given the likely need to also use propane to heat water, cook, run refrigerator, etc. lets budget 5 gallons (21.5 pounds) of propane per propane tank refill to incinerating toilet use. At 2.5 pounds of propane per day down the toilet, ans 21.5 pound supply ration that puts you going in search of a propane refill once every 9 days. I have a 40 gallon black tank on my coach, and can easily go a week between needing to find a dump station when traveling solo.

If I have enough solar, I can run the incinerating toilet electrically. My solar needs in general are very, very minimal and I plan to have a power station (like a Jackery) on hand, too.

Overall, I think I made my decision which will likely surprise some folks who may have been following my search here. I've decided to go with the Winnebago EKKO. I love the size. It's perfect. It has 50 gallons of fresh water. (My first priority.) It's a cassette toilet but I have a plan that could work to modify that. If not, then I'll just have to deal with it. First world problems.

The things I don't like about EKKO are mostly options I don't have to get. The rest are actually simple modifications. The main thing is that it's 100% ready to go Day One and that trumps everything.

This will make some folks wince, but I'm going with the new 2023 model instead of a used one because the improvements they made are worth it to me. The gulper pump, for example, is now on the outside (not nearly as noisy) and they moved the inverter from an outside compartment to inside the coach, so the inverter switch and the breaker are a lot more convenient to access.

From what I've seen, folks really enjoy their EKKOs. I'm not sure how I feel about acrylic windows though. One couple said they do transfer heat and cold like a magnifying glass. (Their fix is to get them tinted again. I'm considering double glazed windows as a replacement.

Now I'm just waiting for the timing (which is out of my hands) before I can purchase one. In the meantime, I'll be finding some to tour them.