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03-22-2020, 07:00 PM
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#1
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 63
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Generator output - changing hardwired to using dogbone adapter (help)
Good day folks.
I wasn't sure where to ask this, so if it's in the wrong spot... moderators, please move it to the correct part of the forum. Thanks.
I've got an RV, with a 7000 watt Onan Gold (generator).
It's currently hardwired, from a whip to the coach.
1 - 30A 120V breaker leg
1 - 20A 120V breaker leg
(two hot legs in the whip, tied into two seperate pieces of romex that go into the coach - all in a metal junction box in the generator bay)
It's of course still 120V, and works as it should. The side of the coach has the normal 30A receptacle for connecting to shore/pedestal power.
What I'd like to do, is utilize the 30A 120V output of the generator to run a welder. I've racked my brain a bit to accomplish this cleanly and without too much issue. I don't want to reinvent the wheel, but make it easy to configure and work with if/when the time comes to do some remote welding (it happens quite often, as we're off-roaders who camp for weeks in the open desert).
My initial thoughts....
Is break this connection at the generator whip and junction box to the coach. I'd like the ability to plug in a 120V 30A welder to the generator directly, and bypass the coach all together (the idea; disconnecting the coach, from the generator). I know some coachs come this way from the factory. My obviously did not.
My idea, is to;
On the generator whip, install a Nema 14-50R
On the coach, install another Nema 14-50R
Make a custom suicide cable, with 14-50P on each end. To tie the two receptacles together during normal use.
... using the L1 of the custom made dogbone (connector) tie it into the 30A 120V circuit, and L2 of the connector to the 20A 120V circuit. Essentially, just making a junction that I can unplug and single out the generator's output (removing all coach electrical demand).
I know the above, would be similar to a suicide cable being both sides of the cord would be male. But, I'd only deal with it (unplug/plug in) with generator off, or disconnected from shore/pedestal power. Not fool proof by any means, no matter how many *warning* labels I attach to the cable and post above the generator. I get it. But can't think of too many other choices to get what I'm after.
I'd connect a Nema 14-50P dogbone adapter that converted my generators output to a TT-30R or my actual needed 5-15R.
Does this sound "doable"??
One last question;
Would it be an issue, if I scrubbed the whole idea above... and simply added a 30A 120V 3 prong twistlock (TT-30R) to the 30amp output of the generator, and didn't actually break the connection to the coach? (Just wire nutted in the TT-30R to the existing junction box)
Would I be causing any kind of issue when running the generator (keeping all electrical demands inside the RV off - of course) and plugging into the added TT-30R and welding off that 30A leg?
... I'm a bit flustered. Banging off the rev limiter of my OCD, and want to make this the cleanest safest install. Yet, still be able to utilize the 30A 120V breaker for the welder's needs.
ANY help is appreciated.
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03-22-2020, 08:42 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 35,349
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Do this,
Would it be an issue, if I scrubbed the whole idea above... and simply added a 30A 120V 3 prong twistlock (TT-30R) to the 30amp output of the generator, and didn't actually break the connection to the coach? (Just wire nutted in the TT-30R to the existing junction box)
Then go inside and switch off the 30 amp main breaker. You will still have 20 amps for whatever it runs.
With your other plan, why not use a male and female plug instead of two females and the 2 male pluggs on a suicide jumper.
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03-22-2020, 10:04 PM
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#3
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinboat
Do this,
Would it be an issue, if I scrubbed the whole idea above... and simply added a 30A 120V 3 prong twistlock (TT-30R) to the 30amp output of the generator, and didn't actually break the connection to the coach? (Just wire nutted in the TT-30R to the existing junction box)
Then go inside and switch off the 30 amp main breaker. You will still have 20 amps for whatever it runs.
With your other plan, why not use a male and female plug instead of two females and the 2 male pluggs on a suicide jumper.
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If I do so, I don't have a "30 amp breaker" in my panel, to shunt.
I was going to do a male/female cord as you mention. In fact, I have all the stuff to do it... however, it's a 3 prong 30A RV receptacle/plug. I need the 4th prong for the L2. I could still do a male/female... allowing me to use a 50A style cord for pedestal power if I had issues with the standard 30A wall/shore hookup.
Here's the space, with the generator whip coming up to the junction box. Coach wires go out the back of the junction box.
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03-23-2020, 05:51 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Tiffin Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,433
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Most welders are 240 volt. Check your generator most are not 240 but put out two 120 volt legs.
I am not an electrician but was told some time ago that RV generators are not even suited to be back up power for a house for that reason.
__________________
Dave and Cindy
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03-23-2020, 07:19 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 35,349
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You said you have a 120 volt welder. If you need 2 legs, then you have a 240 volt welder.
Unless your generator has a 240 volt output, your welder is not going to run on it.
If its a 120 volt welder,then you don't need 2 legs, just L1 ( 30 Amp ), neutral and ground.
Some generators can be re-wired for 240 volt output, but then its full output is split evenly between both legs. A 5500 watt 240 volt generator will have about 22 amps per leg.
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03-23-2020, 07:30 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Tiffin Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,433
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I apologize I did miss that it was a 120 volt welder.
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03-23-2020, 08:50 AM
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#7
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dabrooks
I apologize I did miss that it was a 120 volt welder.
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Yup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twinboat
You said you have a 120 volt welder. If you need 2 legs, then you have a 240 volt welder.
Unless your generator has a 240 volt output, your welder is not going to run on it.
If its a 120 volt welder,then you don't need 2 legs, just L1 ( 30 Amp ), neutral and ground.
Some generators can be re-wired for 240 volt output, but then its full output is split evenly between both legs. A 5500 watt 240 volt generator will have about 22 amps per leg.
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You didn't read my issue correctly.
I don't need "2 hot legs" for my welder.
The welder is a dual voltage welder (120V or 240V). It can run on either.
I'd like to use the 120V 30A circuit off the generator. Using a 14-50R to 5-15R adapter. L1 of the 14-50R will be the 30A leg.
My 7000 Onan Gold, is NOT a 240V generator.
I have to use a 4 prong connector to simulate my current generator-TO-coach hardwired junction... using both L1 (30A) and L2 (20A) of the Nema 14-50R.
I was asking if there's a better way to wire the Generator-TO-coach to make my task safer or cleaner, by using a cable to connect them. Unplugging that cord, and plugging in my "adapter" to run the welder off the new generator receptacle.
Is that more clear? Do we all need a diagram?!
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03-23-2020, 09:04 AM
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#8
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dabrooks
Most welders are 240 volt. Check your generator most are not 240 but put out two 120 volt legs.
I am not an electrician but was told some time ago that RV generators are not even suited to be back up power for a house for that reason.
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... that last paragraph would be correct. And I have that covered.
Multi-quip DCA-45 diesel generator on dual axle trailer (26,000 watts)
... single or 3-phase, 150A 480V... etc, that I use to power my house during outages. Will also power my 3-phase well pump. (we live rural, and they shut off power often for high winds and possible brush fire... and our recent 'power pole replacement project - wood to steel')
Duromax XP12000EH (dual fuel, 12,000 watts) 50A 240V
... that I use to power my welder on 240V, if 120V won't cut the mustard on a job.
Honda EU3000i generator... 3000W, 20A 120V
... I used to use it for mobile welding on 120V, but it's a little bit underpowered and caused the welder to struggle on light material.
Dual Honda EU2000i generators in parallel (3800 watts, 120V 30A)
... that I use to power my (mobile) welder on 120V, and also as backup power for my RV when boondocking (camping in the local desert). However, want the ability to also use the RV's generator to run a welder if need be (redundancy).
So, as you can see... this 'task' I have for my RV generator, is simply to cover my butt and have "the ability" to unplug the coach and plug in a 120V welder directly to the generator's output.
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03-23-2020, 09:44 AM
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#9
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 63
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Alright folks...
I'm pretty impatient, so I've decided to;
Wire in two L14-30R
1 on the generator whip, 1 on the coach
Make a short 1-2ft 10/4 SO cord, with L14-30P on each end
Buy a 20ft cord, one side is L14-30P and the other side is (4) 5-20R
This will handle my needs, yet the short SO cord will be a 'suicide' cable configuration. Being that short cord will RARELY be unplugged and is tucked away in the generator bay... I'm not going to worry about it. Yet, I will use my label maker and make bold colorful warning labels.
Thanks for the help, and trying to get me to a viable solution.
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03-23-2020, 09:50 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 35,349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyJ
Alright folks...
I'm pretty impatient, so I've decided to;
Wire in two L14-30R
1 on the generator whip, 1 on the coach
Make a short 1-2ft 10/4 SO cord, with L14-30P on each end
Buy a 20ft cord, one side is L14-30P and the other side is (4) 5-20R
This will handle my needs, yet the short SO cord will be a 'suicide' cable configuration. Being that short cord will RARELY be unplugged and is tucked away in the generator bay... I'm not going to worry about it. Yet, I will use my label maker and make bold colorful warning labels.
Thanks for the help, and trying to get me to a viable solution.
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Good to go.
Still don't get why you didn't use a L14-30 Female on the generator end and a L14-30 Male on the house feed and the welder cord. You wouldn't need the jumper.
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03-23-2020, 10:03 AM
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#11
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinboat
Good to go.
Still don't get why you didn't use a L14-30 Female on the generator end and a L14-30 Male on the house feed and the welder cord. You wouldn't need the jumper.
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If I did as you suggest, the house feed would come out of a metal raceway as two pieces of romex. I'd have to protect them with tape and a rubber grommet where they exit the raceway.
The generator whip, would be 'loose' and need to be anchored. Same with the house feed. If I anchor both sides (to keep them from chaffing, etc) it'll make the unplugging/plugging task more tedious and (in my opinion) not look as clean. Still be some 'flopping around' if you will.
It would be MUCH simpler, and less parts. Yet, just not robust enough for me.
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03-23-2020, 04:05 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Meshoppen, PA
Posts: 1,997
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since you did what u did, for conversation..
see my pick, the 7000 has 2 wiring configs,, a trans switch with both legs feeding the breakers.. or transfer switch one leg to coach 30 A and the other leg to run the AC not transfered,
So if it looked like the lower with the one leg doing only AC work, I would have grabbed that one and spliced in a Female recpt. and leave the AC off.. . Now not sure if the transfer switch would be gen priority or shore priority, normally shore, . Regardless the genny would have 2 legs doing seperate duty..
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