Got shocked touching my rv standing in wet grass... [Moderator Edit]?

[Johnynorthla]

Originally Posted by AirBossdavid

I may be late to this conversation but.....when Electricity moves through a cable it creates a magnetic field. When a magnetic field passes through a conductor it creates a charge. This is how a coil works (also a generator or alternator). In order to make a charge the magnetic field has to move. In a cool it is set up with a dc 12 volt charge, turn the dc off, the magnetic field collapses and the coils creates a high voltage charge to fire a spark plug.

If you park under 600,000 volt power lines that are ac (alternating current) the magnetic field sets up and collapses with each alternate (60 hz here in North America). Your rv is full of conductive things. Wires, frame, metallic skin, anything conductive. So your charge in the skin is as likely a result of this.

Is this the same as EMi?

[Harvard]

Originally Posted by AirBossdavid

I may be late to this conversation but.....when Electricity moves through a cable it creates a magnetic field. When a magnetic field passes through a conductor it creates a charge. This is how a coil works (also a generator or alternator). In order to make a charge the magnetic field has to move. In a cool it is set up with a dc 12 volt charge, turn the dc off, the magnetic field collapses and the coils creates a high voltage charge to fire a spark plug.

If you park under 600,000 volt power lines that are ac (alternating current) the magnetic field sets up and collapses with each alternate (60 hz here in North America). Your rv is full of conductive things. Wires, frame, metallic skin, anything conductive. So your charge in the skin is as likely a result of this.

I think the Airstream story is more about an Electric Field then a Magnetic Field.

Quote from Health Canada on the topic of Electric Magnetic Fields (EMFs):

START QUOTE:
EMFs are invisible forces that surround electrical equipment, power cords, and wires that carry electricity, including outdoor power lines.

•Electric Fields: These are formed whenever a wire is plugged into an outlet, even when the appliance is not turned on. The higher the voltage, the stronger the electric field.

•Magnetic Fields: These are formed when electric current is flowing within a device or wire. The greater the current, the stronger the magnetic field.

EMFs can occur separately or together. For example, when you plug the power cord for a lamp into a wall socket, it creates an electric field along the cord. When you turn the lamp on, the flow of current through the cord creates a magnetic field. Meanwhile, the electric field is still present.
END QUOTE:

The physics of Capacitance is related to Electric Fields.
The physics of Inductance is related to Magnetic Fields.

[OlJB]

If you're using an EFI to protect the expensive electrical stuff in your RV, it will tell you if there is a ground, so it is an automatic check.

[PalBacker]

Originally Posted by bpu699

2000 Winnebago ultimate, plugged into a land line at 110v to charge up the batteries...

Was standing in wet grass, touched a bare rivet in a panel... got a case of the tingles...

Weird. Touched it again, got it again. [Moderator edit]?

Got a voltmeter stuck 1 end on concrete one on the rivet... 0 volts.

Put one end on the rivet, 1 end in wet grass... 10.9 v AC !!!

Checked anywhere on the frame, same result...

Shut off all the breakers in the rv, no change.

Checked my wire running to the garage and it was an ungrounded utility wire, ie, 2 prong...

Used a proper grounded wire, and all’s well: 0 volts.

But why would that matter? When you’re getting ac off the generator, your clearly not grounded to the earth. Haven’t tried with the generator running yet...

What if the rv park isn’t grounded? I suspect no one ever checks...

Perhaps tommorrow...

This is a serious problem and has actually caused death of small pets. Somewhere in the RV there is a ground to the chassis, This is the first check in my RV Inspection Service. It can really be dangerous if it happens at a campground. Your trouble shooting is good so far. You are eliminating trouble points. Now you need to really go thru your electrical systems. Converter, inverter, breakers and the actual wires unit you find it. If you have a working diagram it will easier, but many manufacturer don’t provide diagrams.

[roadrunner 2]

I'm an electrical contractor
The reason this is happening is the pedestal ground and neutral wiring is bonded together inside the panel. When the main feed Neutral wire is loose in the panel or at the Electrical vault near by. The Crips burn in the vaults and cause the system to go to ground, since the pedestal is bonded to the neutral wire all of the grounding is now on the frame of the pedestal. Needs to have the neutral landing lug tightened or the Crimp in the vault replaced.
If you want to save yourself a shock. You can buy a wand voltage tester at home depot for 20 bucks. They look like a fat pencil if there (Yellow at hd) held next to anything live
thy beep and flash red. Great for cords, outlets just hold it next to a cord and it will tell you if it is energized.

[Gary H]

You home power is grounded at the service, the tingle you are getting is transient voltages from misc. sources the Motorhome is designed to be grounded (thru the cord connection to eliminate these, you stated it is connected to a two prong oulet thus the coach is un grounded and you are the path to ground for these voltages. You do not get them whith the GenSet as it is coach grounded and has no reference to ground (Earth). You should have the receptical for the coach grounded and this will elimante the issue. Or provide an external ground wire to something at your home that is gounded (3 prong). Then if there is an failure like the waterheater the breaker will trip to protect you instead of a serious shock.
Good Luck...

[Gary H]

Originally Posted by roadrunner 2

I'm an electrical contractor
The reason this is happening is the pedestal ground and neutral wiring is bonded together inside the panel. When the main feed Neutral wire is loose in the panel or at the Electrical vault near by. The Crips burn in the vaults and cause the system to go to ground, since the pedestal is bonded to the neutral wire all of the grounding is now on the frame of the pedestal. Needs to have the neutral landing lug tightened or the Crimp in the vault replaced.
If you want to save yourself a shock. You can buy a wand voltage tester at home depot for 20 bucks. They look like a fat pencil if there (Yellow at hd) held next to anything live
thy beep and flash red. Great for cords, outlets just hold it next to a cord and it will tell you if it is energized.

I think you have one issue incorrect, The electrical system be it in a home or a RV park, has the neutral and the ground bonded at only one location, at the service, if the pedestal is bonded to the ground and neutral there is a code violation. See NEC. That is why a ground conductor is installed at all location behind the service.
Retired Electrical Inspector...

[bpu699]

Thanks all. Will update Sunday. And again to clarify, it’s 10v stray, and if properly. Grounded with a 3 prong wire there are no issues...

The only real question as I see it is:

Is it normal to have 10v stray AC when the rv is powered by an ungrounded wire...

Seems like half the posts say that’s normal, or some variant of normal...

Half say it should be “zero” stray volts, even ungrounded...

One poster suggested it was normal, and to check the stray voltage of the 150ft extension cord... will do.

Will post all details on Sunday, as I’m out of town til then...

Lively thread!

[bpu699]

Originally Posted by Gary H

You home power is grounded at the service, the tingle you are getting is transient voltages from misc. sources the Motorhome is designed to be grounded (thru the cord connection to eliminate these, you stated it is connected to a two prong oulet thus the coach is un grounded and you are the path to ground for these voltages. You do not get them whith the GenSet as it is coach grounded and has no reference to ground (Earth). You should have the receptical for the coach grounded and this will elimante the issue. Or provide an external ground wire to something at your home that is gounded (3 prong). Then if there is an failure like the waterheater the breaker will trip to protect you instead of a serious shock.
Good Luck...

Absolutely... using a grounded wire 100% solves the problem. See post above.

[reharlan]

Master electrician

The two wire extension cord was the reason you got tingled and lucky you weren't electrocuted. There is some leakage in your RV to ground, perhaps a bad insulator but the ground wire keeps the frame of the RV at Ground Potential when plugged into the electrical grid. Always use a grounded cord! As someone mentioned above, generators are typically not grounded so there is no return path but the frame of the generator is bonded to the rv through the cord. Stay safe.

[Charlesland]

Take a voltage reading on the 2 wire cord going to the garage - neutral to wet grass. Once without the coach plugged in and once with it plugged in. If you get zero both times your coach is the culprit.

[DAN L]

I always use my surge protector to check pole for open neutral and proper voltages before plugging my Moho in at CGS.
I find problems occasionally before damage can be done.

[Dutchstar53]

Originally Posted by bpu699

2000 Winnebago ultimate, plugged into a land line at 110v to charge up the batteries...

Was standing in wet grass, touched a bare rivet in a panel... got a case of the tingles...

Weird. Touched it again, got it again. [Moderator edit]?

Got a voltmeter stuck 1 end on concrete one on the rivet... 0 volts.

Put one end on the rivet, 1 end in wet grass... 10.9 v AC !!!

Checked anywhere on the frame, same result...

Shut off all the breakers in the rv, no change.


Checked my wire running to the garage and it was an ungrounded utility wire, ie, 2 prong...

Used a proper grounded wire, and all’s well: 0 volts.

But why would that matter? When you’re getting ac off the generator, your clearly not grounded to the earth. Haven’t tried with the generator running yet...

What if the rv park isn’t grounded? I suspect no one ever checks...

Perhaps tommorrow...

Here’s a link on Hot Skin. https://www.rvtravel.com/proper-rv-c...kin-condition/ It’s from Mike Sokol who writes about all things electrical at RVTravel.com We bought surge protector because of him and learned about “hot skin”. it can kill as it did a 5 yr old boy camping with grandparents.

[Harvard]

Originally Posted by reharlan

Master electrician

... There is some leakage in your RV to ground, perhaps a bad insulator .....

or, perhaps stray capacitance between H, G and N wires ......