Levelers - I guess I flunked...

[SarahW]

Originally Posted by Tony Lee

Although to be fair, the vast majority of RVers don't have the technical knowledge or experience to know what advice is sound and what is the stuff of urban legends or what used to have some truth in it and which is now well and truly outdated...

And that is precisely why everyone should rely on the manufacturer's recommendations and user manual for their levelers. I have copied/pasted Page 3 of the PowerGear Hydraulic Levelers User Operation Manual... and yes, it is printed in bold RED print. This may not pertain to your levelers but it certainly does to ours, and we follow these guidelines.

Page 3

WARNING
•
DO NOT USE THE POWER GEAR HYDRAULIC LEVELING SYSTEM (OR AIR
SUSPENSION) TO SUPPORT VEHICLE WHILE UNDER COACH OR
CHANGING TIRES. THE HYDRAULIC LEVELING SYSTEM IS DESIGNED AS
A ‘LEVELING’ SYSTEM ONLY. TIRE REPAIRS SHOULD BE PERFORMED BY
A TRAINED PROFESSIONAL. ATTEMPTS TO CHANGE TIRES WHILE
SUPPORTING THE VEHICLE WITH THE HYDRAULIC SYSTEM COULD
RESULT IN DAMAGE TO THE MOTOR HOME AND/OR CAUSE SERIOUS
INJURY OR EVEN DEATH.
•
KEEP PEOPLE CLEAR OF COACH WHILE LEVELING SYSTEM IS IN USE.
•
NEVER LIFT THE WHEELS OFF THE GROUND TO LEVEL THE COACH.
DOING SO MAY CREATE AN UNSTABLE CONDITION.
•
NEVER EXPOSE HANDS OR OTHER PARTS OF THE BODY NEAR
HYDRAULIC LEAKS. HIGH PRESSURE OIL LEAKS MAY CUT AND
PENETRATE THE SKIN CAUSING SERIOUS INJURY.
•
DO NOT USE A HIGH PRESSURED WASH/RINSE SYSTEM ON ANY OF THE
COMPONENTS ASSOCIATED WITH THE LEVELING SYSTEM. THIS
INCLUDES THE PUMP, PUMP MOTOR, WIRING HARNESS, CONTROL, AND
TOUCHPAD. THE USE OF A HIGH PRESSURE WASH/RINSE SYSTEM WILL
VOID THE WARRANTY
.
CAUTION
-
PARK THE COACH ON A REASONABLY SOLID SURFACE OR THE
JACKS MAY SINK INTO GROUND. ON SOFT SURFACES, USE LOAD
DISTRIBUTION PADS UNDER EACH JACK.

CAUTION
-
CHECK THAT POTENTIAL JACK CONTACT LOCATIONS ARE CLEAR OF
OBSTRUCTIONS OR DEPRESSIONS BEFORE OPERATION

[Mike and Cha]

Well done Sarah thanks for posting the manual I don't have the capability to do that but I rechecked mine and it has the same warning. I along with a lot of other RV'rs have a lot of technical knowledge/experience that Tony Lee isn't aware of, so that statement is off base and could lead others to make costly mistakes. Then again I think a wise person would not take advice from someone who admits to driving his RV's in a manor that would allow the wheels to come off the ground while driving.

[Easyrider]

The warning that lifting the wheels off the ground may cause an unstable condition means that the motorhome may move, just as I stated with the instructions I found saying the rear wheels are the only ones that lock up when in park or the parking brake is applied and if the rear wheels are up the RV could move if on an not level grade. It does not indicate the chassis or suspension may be damaged due to the wheels hanging in the air. So the question still remains- does leaving lifted wheels off the ground actually damage anything?

[530ktm]

[FIRE UP]

Originally Posted by Easyrider

The warning that lifting the wheels off the ground may cause an unstable condition means that the motorhome may move, just as I stated with the instructions I found saying the rear wheels are the only ones that lock up when in park or the parking brake is applied and if the rear wheels are up the RV could move if on an not level grade. It does not indicate the chassis or suspension may be damaged due to the wheels hanging in the air. So the question still remains- does leaving lifted wheels off the ground actually damage anything?

Easyrider,
Well, the answer to your ultimate question can be somewhat subjective. I personally think that much of the answer depends on what kind mechanical back ground one has. You see, when certain things are done in a mechanical world, if you've got experience and even some technical expertise in fabrication, welding, auto engines, diesel engines, frames, suspension, and a whole lot more, then you might think of things that folks not otherwise "enlightened" with many of those traits, might not consider.

In other words, a mechanically inclined operator will consider all possible aspects of a "what if". Where as, one that's not mechanically inclined, might have tendency to just say, "it's going to be just fine" or, "it won't hurt anything". These are just opinions of mine. Of course things will vary and, so do people.

Manufacturers can only WARN of so many operations, moves, what ifs, do's and don'ts, dangers, and more. There is supposed to be some sort of common sense involve possibly too.

I mean, you run over a curb with a tire on a coach and, most likely it won't hurt a thing, ONE TIME. But, do it constantly and, it's more than likely will have detrimental effects. Hang the tires/wheels/suspension and more, ONE TIME and, again, most likely will not injure the coach. But, continuously doing that process can and, eventually will have some effects on components. And, the thing is, ANY damaging effects COULD have been prevented because the owners knew better. There's an age old saying:

"You can pay me now, or, pay me later".
Scott

[allynne]

I rather hate to jump into this rather heated thread, but then I don't have much "COMMOM SENSE". I've been on several RV online sites and recall a few years ago this same discussion came up. The conclusion was that both FL and Sparton agreed/stated that the front suspension would not be damaged by being lifted off the ground. The caution was not to raise rear tires off the ground due to the breaking issue. HWH also stated that their jack system was robust enough to support the full weight of any coach.

I don't know if engineering and specifications for either chassis have changed in the intervening years. I am however satisfied that my '05 Sparton chassis is sufficiently well put together to raise the front wheels off the ground if necessary to level. My HWH jacks seem bullet proof for that option.
Not leveling as much as possible will be more costly due to damage to the Norcold/Dometic cooling unit. I am told they are damaged by an unlevel situation. Done often enough, the yellow powder will appear and there will be no cooling.

Good luck whichever path you take. I'll go with the manufacturers and not self appointed experts.

Al Sawyer
'05 MT. Aire

[Mike and Cha]

Originally Posted by allynne

I rather hate to jump into this rather heated thread, but then I don't have much "COMMOM SENSE". I've been on several RV online sites and recall a few years ago this same discussion came up. The conclusion was that both FL and Sparton agreed/stated that the front suspension would not be damaged by being lifted off the ground. The caution was not to raise rear tires off the ground due to the breaking issue. HWH also stated that their jack system was robust enough to support the full weight of any coach.

I don't know if engineering and specifications for either chassis have changed in the intervening years. I am however satisfied that my '05 Sparton chassis is sufficiently well put together to raise the front wheels off the ground if necessary to level. My HWH jacks seem bullet proof for that option.
Not leveling as much as possible will be more costly due to damage to the Norcold/Dometic cooling unit. I am told they are damaged by an unlevel situation. Done often enough, the yellow powder will appear and there will be no cooling.

Good luck whichever path you take. I'll go with the manufacturers and not self appointed experts.

Al Sawyer
'05 MT. Aire

Al, I don't believe one person on the whole thread ever said not to level the MH, just that it would be better to use blocks under the front wheels and then adjust to level with the jacks rather than letting the front tires stay off the ground and relying soley on the jacks. I think anyone would agree that all tires on a solid surface and four jacks would provide for a much more stability, having eight contact points with the ground rather than just relying on the jacks on the ground. To each his own but your comment about "self appointed experts" is a little offensive to all those that are just giving their opinions, don't you think.

[Easyrider]

allynne, I'm with you until someone can prove through manufacturers instructions that lifting the front wheels off the ground will actually damage the suspension. To me it defies logic to think a suspension that is built to take a constant pounding going down the highway at 60 miles per hour or more, for 8 hours or more, and for days or more, would be damaged by the simple act of lifting the wheels off the ground. And at what point would the damage occur? When the jacks have just barely lifted the RV? Or half way to suspending the wheels? Or just before the wheels come up off the ground? Or somewhere in between? Will it happen right away, an hour later, days later, or when? After all, if I'm looking at this correctly as soon as the RV is lifted at all by the jacks the weight of the RV is off the wheels and suspension and is supported by the jacks, and just the weight of the wheels, tires, and movable suspension parts are now supported by the wheels and tires. I think there is a term for the different weights that are suspended or not but I can't think of it right now, maybe it's suspended weight and non-suspended weight. I know the wheels and tires are always in the non-suspended category, because they don't have any suspension between them and the ground. Anyway, because there is strong opinions about this subject I was hoping someone could supply factual information from the manufacturers stating whether damage would occur or not.

[shiggs68]

Originally Posted by Easyrider

allynne, I'm with you until someone can prove through manufacturers instructions that lifting the front wheels off the ground will actually damage the suspension. To me it defies logic to think a suspension that is built to take a constant pounding going down the highway at 60 miles per hour or more, for 8 hours or more, and for days or more, would be damaged by the simple act of lifting the wheels off the ground. And at what point would the damage occur? When the jacks have just barely lifted the RV? Or half way to suspending the wheels? Or just before the wheels come up off the ground? Or somewhere in between? Will it happen right away, an hour later, days later, or when? After all, if I'm looking at this correctly as soon as the RV is lifted at all by the jacks the weight of the RV is off the wheels and suspension and is supported by the jacks, and just the weight of the wheels, tires, and movable suspension parts are now supported by the wheels and tires. I think there is a term for the different weights that are suspended or not but I can't think of it right now, maybe it's suspended weight and non-suspended weight. I know the wheels and tires are always in the non-suspended category, because they don't have any suspension between them and the ground. Anyway, because there is strong opinions about this subject I was hoping someone could supply factual information from the manufacturers stating whether damage would occur or not.

I have to agree 100%. With previous experience in a service station, how do people think tires are ever replaced without lifting them off the ground?

The only vehicle that may be damaged is a semi-tractor where the springs will fail out of the holders when the frame is lifted.


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[alank]

Back in the "old days", whenever that was, it was a standard to put a vehicle up on blocks (the frame, not the tires) if it were going to be parked for an extended time.

[head gamez]

Wow. Some of you guys work to hard.

I park, dump the air, and level the coach. I'm good as long as one side of the rear is on the ground.

Obviously, if their are other site options I will see about a change, but don't plan on digging or blocking.

Have fun out there!