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Old 12-14-2020, 06:53 PM   #1
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Motorhome for cold winter

I am looking to get either a Super C (Newmar Superstar) or class A to use for work in Montana/North Dakota. Need something that can be bulletproof in cold weather and would like to use hydronic heating (all electric). Needs to be able to sleep 6 with bunks and/or overhead loft preferred. Would like to stay south of $400k. How 4 seasons is the Super C and should I worry about line freezes, etc in that model? Any suggestions would be most appreciated. Thank you.
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Old 12-14-2020, 07:21 PM   #2
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Whoa. I have no recommendation for which C might work but I'd recommend an RV with dual pane windows of course. And then, since power outages are always a possibility during blizzards, perhaps install one of these: Diesel Heater

Small enough to go under the kitchen sink, only needs a small hole or two in the outer skin for inlet and output air for the combustion chamber, then a hole in the sink cabinet's floor to a source of diesel. Many of them come with a small fuel pump.

Good luck, wow, ND winter. Always brutal. Infrastructure poor in a lot of areas with power outages often enough to make having a 12 volt backup system useful.
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Old 12-14-2020, 07:35 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dcow View Post
I am looking to get either a Super C (Newmar Superstar) or class A to use for work in Montana/North Dakota. Need something that can be bulletproof in cold weather and would like to use hydronic heating (all electric). Needs to be able to sleep 6 with bunks and/or overhead loft preferred. Would like to stay south of $400k. How 4 seasons is the Super C and should I worry about line freezes, etc in that model? Any suggestions would be most appreciated.
Being Newmar with a good reputation for insulation etc, it’s probably better than anything else in its class for this, and since you will likely be ordering the coach, I’d look into some “specials” to specifically address this. As an example I’m enclosing my DEF tank compartment so I can control the temp in there, because the stuff is clearly sensitive to lower temps, even if it’s suppose to be good down to 12*F. I’m sure you can think of other ideas that might be helpful. And of course definitely choose every other cold climate option they have such as upgraded ceiling insulation and tank heaters.
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Old 12-14-2020, 08:59 PM   #4
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Look for super C's built for Canada. Most builders have winterized versions that include dual pane windows, extra insulation, all plumbing in the heated zone and all tanks in either heated bays or inside the coach. We found ours in Western Canada, it was exported right from the factory, built in Indiana. We also have a 55,000 BTU hydronic heating system with electric backup.
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Old 12-14-2020, 09:10 PM   #5
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A Dutch Star 4326 will fit the bill. MSRP will be north of $500K, but you can do it for less than $400K depending on tax rate.

You can also look at a Ventana 4326 for even less.
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Old 12-14-2020, 10:17 PM   #6
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It's one thing to travel for several days in near -20 degree weather, but it's an entirely different thing to live a motorhome for the winter in extreme cold and potentially heavy snow. Any class A you pick will need additional protection and added heaters to deal with those conditions. The simple task of dumping black and grey water and filling with fresh would be a very unpleasant job at -15 with wind and if you plan to sleep six, you'll be doing that a lot. Where will you park it to get power and water etc?? I've dealt with very cold travel in a motorhome after several improvements, but would never want to live in one in Montana/North Dakota for the winter.
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Old 12-14-2020, 11:30 PM   #7
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I will have 50amp hookups at most of the places I go. And most of the time I am alone...I travel around looking at operations during the week then fly home on weekends. I have done it in a truck camper for a while...was just looking for more space. Really would be interested in the suitability of a newmar superstar for the task as well. Thanks.
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Old 12-15-2020, 07:17 PM   #8
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You need to go to manufacturers and get their certifications for what their coaches are built for, (cold temperature wise). Don't take second hand opinions offered here on the forum.
One thing you said you wanted was all electric hydronic, that won't happen if you want to keep warm. Hydronic gets it's real heat from diesel. You said you'll have 50A plugs most of the time, what will you have the rest of the time? If it's 30A, that's less than 1/3 the power of 50A. Having 50A some of the time won't keep you from freezing up all the time.
Leaving it unattended on weekends really isn't a good idea in the temps you describe.
You've been doing this for a while, so you know exactly what to expect climate wise, but I'm not sure a big coach will meet your needs.
Good luck and happy hunting.

Bullett Proof for cold in Montana/North Dakota is a pretty big order for a coach.
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Old 12-15-2020, 10:00 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dcow View Post
I am looking to get either a Super C (Newmar Superstar) or class A to use for work in Montana/North Dakota. Need something that can be bulletproof in cold weather and would like to use hydronic heating (all electric). Needs to be able to sleep 6 with bunks and/or overhead loft preferred. Would like to stay south of $400k. How 4 seasons is the Super C and should I worry about line freezes, etc in that model? Any suggestions would be most appreciated. Thank you.
I thought of a few more points to consider.
Our Haulmark sleeps 8 and is 43 ft long. It has 6 inches of insulation in the roof, 2.5 inches walls, 4 inches in the floor, almost all is spray foam. Our fresh water tank is in the bedroom, under the bed, 200 gallons. Our black and grey tanks are in spray foam insulated compartments with one of the hydronic radiators from the heating system keeping it from freezing. Both tanks and the drains have electric heaters also. Even though our coach is very well insulated the slides are the problem. The only way we can keep the coach warm in temps below 20 degrees is to keep the slides closed (reduces sleeping capacity by 2). Our hydronic system is 55,000 BTU and runs on propane and electric. At low temps we can camp about 1.5 weeks before having to refill the propane tank. It can be fun to camp in cold weather for a short time, but for weeks?
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Old 12-17-2020, 09:52 AM   #10
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The above is about as much insulation I have heard of.
A friend's TT we used batt insulation suspended under floor and skirted with pole building metal. The slide we insulated sidewalls with foam board from the outside mostly press fit and some foil tape. Home made insulated heatrace hose. Sewage pipe pitched through skirt adapted to PVC with industrial pipe insulation and skinned. Water was free he made sure toilet was full every flush to keep open and flowing. With metal skirt looked like lunar base. Most other residents used foam board , but at three feet needed it was 25% is a huge waste but 12' sheet metal no waste. Insulating floor and wind brake seemed like the better plan.
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Old 12-17-2020, 02:06 PM   #11
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There is no such thing as a bulletproof coach in Montana/North Dakota deep cold winter weather. That's why all—well most all—the camp grounds (CG) up north close for the winter. It's just to dam cold and bad things happen to CG plumbing and other things during the winter. You said you wanted all electric, but even if you were able to get some of the problems solved with propane, now you have to think about how your going to those tanks filled every week or so because you're going to be going thru propane like crazy. Plus you said you're going to be moving around. So now you're not only having to drive on dangerous roads, but this beautiful new XYZ rig you're going to buy is going to be brutalized all winter on salted roads too.
I don't know anything about your work or family situation at all, but if it we me, I'd explore renting a cabin or house up there for the winter. Let's say $1500/mo. + utilities or so. Then bring your coach, your Class C or whatever it is you end up buying up to these northern areas in late spring and stay till late fall if it's a long term work gig. You will be 10's of thousands of dollars ahead—even with indoor storage where you are for the winter—no risk of some really bad things happening to the coach, slides, snow pack, salted chassis, -20º etc etc.

You obviously have the money and the desire to do these things. But IMO just because you can and want to do them, doesn't mean you should.

Good luck my friend.

That's my two cents.
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Old 12-21-2020, 08:56 PM   #12
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I have spent over a week in temperature of 30 degrees daytime and 19 or so overnight low. Coach temp was at 70 and the water bay temp setting was at 50. The Hydronic heater ran more on diesel, but kept the coach nice and cozy. Check into Newmar.
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Old 12-24-2020, 10:46 AM   #13
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Re hydronic heating, there are two basic Aqua Hot models, the 400 series and the 600 series. The primary difference is that the 600 has two heating elements, the 400 one. What that difference means is when you are running the heater, and turn on the hot water, the 400 series stops furnishing heat until the demand for hot water ends. The 600 does both heat and hot water at the same time. Of course you can run the burner along with the electric in the 400, but with six people where you will be, the 600 would be a better choice. The 600 series in is in the top end of the nicer coaches. For under $400k you can get a good used unit with the 600.
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Old 12-24-2020, 10:56 AM   #14
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I know you asked about a motorhome, but for the price you are talking, have a custom built 5th wheel trailer on a commercial frame. You could spec it out however you want. You should be able do this for under $300k

Find a Class 8 tractor to pull it with and register it at as motorhome. Depending on what you go with that could cost between $10k and $100k used.

I know it is not a motorhome solution, but it would be a warmth, heating, durability, self contained solution.
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