Mounting motorcycle carrier on the front of the RV?

[FIRE UP]

Originally Posted by znt1186

We were considering the purchase of a newer motorhome until we realized there was a slope down toward the rear of the coach beginning at the approximate location of the rear axle. Further investigation revealed a motorcycle lift set up on the rear of the coach and all of the cargo doors being jammed together at the bottom from the rear axle back. Didn't take a lot of deductive skill to realize the frame was bent due to the motorcycle lift. Did not buy that coach, and will always be wary of one that has a motorcycle lift on it. The bending forces exerted on the coach frame by the weight of a motorcycle are greatly amplified when going over a big bump with the coach. Consider the effects of mass, velocity and moment arm and that can be a huge bending moment on the frame.

znt1186,
While your ONE experience with what MAY be the result of an M/C lift on the back of a potential coach shows wariness of ALL coaches with M/C lifts, you need to learn or at least think about the differences in structural integrity of different models/brands/makes of coaches. I mounted a Hydralift on the back of our '04 Itasca Horizon 36GD with the C-7 CAT back a few years ago. I carried an '08 Honda GL 1800 Goldwing on it. We did it that way for well over 8,000 miles with not ONE issue whatsoever.

The lift was close to 275-300 lbs. and the bike hovers right close to 900 lbs. In the end, I was 2,100 lbs. OVER the rear axle weight limit. I knew this going into the project. It's a really long story but, initially I was told the back of the coach would be pulled off, the front end would be so light it would not steer, the coach would wander and many more "effect".

Ours is a diesel coach so, the construction, components, frame, and more, were and are, way more tolerant of "extra" weight than a gasser. The frames and suspension of most gassers is quite a bit lighter than a diesel unit so, mounting an actual motorcycle lift, (not a smaller, cheap tray with a ramp) with the intent of hauling anything of size, as in say, a 650 cc or more, is asking for trouble. I've seen it done, more than once but, I wouldn't.

If you were to take a poll on here on who's got an actual lift on the back of their coach and, what kind of bikes are hauled on those lifts, I'd just about bet the farm that, 99.9% of the responders would be diesel drivers.

Originally Posted by MTK46

If your coach is anything like mine the generator mounts & slide will be a problem. Do you really want to deal with not being able to open your generator compartment?
I have a Hydro-Lift on the rear of mine. Now that I have a F-150 as my toad I'm considering selling the lift. I can carry my bike in the back of the truck now.

MTK46,
Well Sir, we were in the same "boat" so to speak. As stated above, we hauled our Wing for over 8,000 miles all over the western U.S. and had ZERO issues with the coach. No wandering, no odd tire wear, no lightness in the front end, nothing. But, like you, we changed our "M.O" as the cops say. We purchased an '11 GMC Sierra 1500 4x4 Extended Cab to be a toad and daily driver. I set it up for towing and, I also purchased a Rampage lift for the truck.

I set that lift up so it was/is installed and, removable within just a few minutes. I created a "cart" for that lift. When I'm ready to install it, I remove the tail gate 'cause it's not needed anyways and can't be used so, why carry it? Then, I roll the cart up to the back of the truck and, I lift the back while the wife wheels the cart out of the way and, I simply glide the lift all the way into the bed and, bolt it down and plug it in. The whole process takes around 4-5 minutes.

When done using it, the whole process of removing it and restoring the truck to normalcy takes equally as long. I really like the Rampage. I got it used (it had been used twice) for $1,500. As much as I really loved the Hydralift, I like the Rampage almost as much. The problem with us is, we can't take the Jeep like we could with the Hydralift.

Scott

[Dark Sky]

To the original poster, you've used the calculation tool, so that's good. If it's the one I'm familiar with, it let you check out the axle load. Don't forget to go a step further and look at the load on your tires. To be safe, figure that either tire should be able to take more than 50%. Maybe use 55%? No duallies on the front to help you out. Very interesting idea. I've seen bikes on the back, small bikes on the front, never have seen one at each end. Doesn't make it wrong. I think other contributors have given you lots of things to consider. If you proceed please share how it goes.

[CountryB]

Originally Posted by MTK46

If your coach is anything like mine the generator mounts & slide will be a problem. Do you really want to deal with not being able to open your generator compartment?
I have a Hydro-Lift on the rear of mine. Now that I have a F-150 as my toad I'm considering selling the lift. I can carry my bike in the back of the truck now.

Sorry to get off topic...
I am in the process of installing a HydrLift now. I'm curious as to how your brackets are attached to your coach. Can you post a photo of the attachment point? I have a thread on my installation in the "Toads & MH Towing" section.

On my Beaver the frame is about 40" off the ground and the there are vertical frame members that drop down for the engine mounts and Tow bar. That is what I'm attaching too.

[Tony Lee]

Surprising that the USA has yet to follow the rest of the world in requiring vehicles to be designed to reduce death and injury to pedestrians

[FIRE UP]

Originally Posted by Tony Lee

Surprising that the USA has yet to follow the rest of the world in requiring vehicles to be designed to reduce death and injury to pedestrians

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[dix39]

Originally Posted by FIRE UP

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Me too.

Just curious, but wouldn't a "smaller, cheap tray with a ramp" be lighter than a lift? What would be the problem with one of those?

I actually have one of those that was built by a neighbor/friend for his brother to carry an on/off road bike to Quartzsite several years. He had stopped using it and gave it to me for doing some electrical work for him. I've thought about using it but am afraid of overloading the Flair. Other than that it would work perfect for me. It was built with a receiver on the back to pull a toad.

I built one of these for the front of the TC to carry a lighter bike on. Something like that could work for the OP if the rest of the MH is strong enough. Then there is the headlight problem.

Steve

[FIRE UP]

Originally Posted by dix39

Me too.

Just curious, but wouldn't a "smaller, cheap tray with a ramp" be lighter than a lift? What would be the problem with one of those?

I actually have one of those that was built by a neighbor/friend for his brother to carry an on/off road bike to Quartzsite several years. He had stopped using it and gave it to me for doing some electrical work for him. I've thought about using it but am afraid of overloading the Flair. Other than that it would work perfect for me. It was built with a receiver on the back to pull a toad.

I built one of these for the front of the TC to carry a lighter bike on. Something like that could work for the OP if the rest of the MH is strong enough. Then there is the headlight problem.

Steve

Steve,
A smaller "cheap tray with a ramp" is perfectly fine, for a smaller bike. Bikes like anything from about a 350 cc street or trail on down would be just fine on one of those. But, when you get into larger, say around 500 cc or more, the single receiver type "Joe Haulers" are not designed for that kind of weight. A lift, as in Hydraulic or, cable driven winch types, is and are designed for much heavier bikes, as in say, 900 cc all the way to our 1800 cc Honda GL 1800 Goldwing. As state, those can hover around 900 lbs. or more.

I had one of the smaller tray type we used for a season to haul our TW200 Yamaha and, tow our Jeep. It worked outstandingly for that purpose. But, I gotta tell ya, getting even that 275 lb. TW 200 up on the tray, on the back of our previous coach, a '99 Fleetwood Bounder 34V, was no small feat, even with the ramp I built. We had to be extra careful. The ergonomics of stabilizing weight that's almost above your shoulders is not a good thing. And back then, I was a younger, but stouter dude, around 6'2.5" and 240 lbs. I still had to be careful not to twist my back etc. while loading and unloading it.
Scott

[znt1186]

[QUOTE=FIRE UP;4072373]znt1186,
While your ONE experience with what MAY be the result of an M/C lift on the back of a potential coach shows wariness of ALL coaches with M/C lifts, you need to learn or at least think about the differences in structural integrity of different models/brands/makes of coaches.

Fireup,

Being a structural engineer, owning a diesel myself and looking to upgrade to a newer one, I did actually think a little about the structural integrity of the frame of the coach. My coach is on a Freightliner chassis as was the one I was looking to buy and I assume yours is as well. I was just pointing out what can happen with all of that extra weight cantilevered several feet behind the rear axle. That mass, velocity and moment arm thing can add up on the coach frame as well as fatigue stresses while running down our wonderfully smooth highways.

Yes, I have seen very many coaches with bike carriers on them and know there a lot of happy bikers out there with no problems. Not butting heads with you, and I do enjoy reading your posts. It doesn't matter what we do as individuals to our own coaches. Just saying, that the damage was done to this one and I passed on it. I will probably do the same on the next one as well. Of course, as you pointed out, it could have been due to a number of things including the wife having too many shoes and clothes in the closet, but my money would be on the bike rack. Whether any damage is done by the bike rack or not, the potential is there for some expensive repairs down the road. Just my opinion.

[FIRE UP]

[QUOTE=znt1186;4073727]

Originally Posted by FIRE UP

znt1186,
While your ONE experience with what MAY be the result of an M/C lift on the back of a potential coach shows wariness of ALL coaches with M/C lifts, you need to learn or at least think about the differences in structural integrity of different models/brands/makes of coaches.

Fireup,

Being a structural engineer, owning a diesel myself and looking to upgrade to a newer one, I did actually think a little about the structural integrity of the frame of the coach. My coach is on a Freightliner chassis as was the one I was looking to buy and I assume yours is as well. I was just pointing out what can happen with all of that extra weight cantilevered several feet behind the rear axle. That mass, velocity and moment arm thing can add up on the coach frame as well as fatigue stresses while running down our wonderfully smooth highways.

Yes, I have seen very many coaches with bike carriers on them and know there a lot of happy bikers out there with no problems. Not butting heads with you, and I do enjoy reading your posts. It doesn't matter what we do as individuals to our own coaches. Just saying, that the damage was done to this one and I passed on it. I will probably do the same on the next one as well. Of course, as you pointed out, it could have been due to a number of things including the wife having too many shoes and clothes in the closet, but my money would be on the bike rack. Whether any damage is done by the bike rack or not, the potential is there for some expensive repairs down the road. Just my opinion.

Roger all of what you said Sir. Not butting heads either. Wanting to carry along all the toys is a dream for many of us. Being able to do it, is a whole " 'nother story". Yep, we got a Freightliner chassis too. The way I did the install of our Hydralift, it used the same exact purchase of the frame, as the original 10,000 lb. trailer hitch did. I just removed that factory hitch and, installed my adaptive steel. Then I adapted the saddles that Hydralift sold me that mount their lift.

On a 36' diesel coach, I had ZERO issues with any portion of that frame, no wandering, no steering issues, no odd tire wear, NOTHING. And all the calculations these boys threw out, well, most of those were off too. I lost 1/16th in body height (from the ground) and, exactly 119 lbs, off the front end when the bike was loaded. The rear was body was riding at the EXACT same height loaded with the bike and lift, as it did/does without that lift and bike on there.

The ride height sensors took care of all of the additional load. The only, ONE AND ONLY, reason we're not still using the Hydralift on our coach is the TIRES. I was running considerably over weight on all four rear tires. If one of them would have blown, the remaining tire would have immediately been presented with an extra 1,350 lbs. of weight. Not good.

So, after 8,000 miles and a lot of fun, we changed our method of operation.

And yes, your observation of Americas "wonderfully smooth roads" is RIGHT ON. I'd watch that bike, in my rear view camera on some roads and, I'm to this day, wondering how it stayed on the back of the coach. I'm sure glad I put some serious steel back there in mounting that lift.
Scott

[trx430ex]

[QUOTE=FIRE UP;4074049]

Originally Posted by znt1186

Roger all of what you said Sir.

And yes, your observation of Americas "wonderfully smooth roads" is RIGHT ON. I'd watch that bike, in my rear view camera on some roads and, I'm to this day, wondering how it stayed on the back of the coach. I'm sure glad I put some serious steel back there in mounting that lift.
Scott

Having driven from Pa to Georgia & back in the last 2 months for the last 15 years, rt95 just seems to get worse. The only states that kept up and had smooth road were Georgia, and surprisingly North Carolina.

I believe condition of the roadway should be given double the consideration for durability & survival of the coach with the add on. I buy the best tires I can find, but still as the roadway threat grows, I am at wits end to see how I can make the rig even stronger.

With road conditions like this, I need a coach designed like an MRAP.

Would upping the size of the air bag suspension, provide more headroom for weight & road conditions? How big can these bags get?

[dix39]

I chuckled at the "wonderfully smooth roads" comment also. We've gone from OR to WV and back taking various routes to see places we were interested in for the last 40 years. I've noticed those "wonderfully smooth roads".

My concern with using the "tray type" would not be with the tray itself, but with the P30 frame. There is already 1120 lbs of liquids + tanks hanging behind the rear axle + everything else. I haven't done any calculations, I'm just afraid it would be too much. If I did use the "tray" I would install a receiver on each side of the frame in addition to the receiver that is already there, much like I did with the 3' TC extension.

My current larger bike is a 500cc Silverwing that I got after determining that the Concours I had before it was too heavy after dropping it several times. At 78 I understand the comment about "younger, stouter". I also understand about different bike weights, I've had them all my life, starting with a 1947 61 cu in Harley in '57. I have a Navy friend who rode a 1800cc Goldwing from SC to OR and back to see us and others for 7 or 8 years just a few years ago. It's not something I would like, but they enjoyed it (I guess). I'd rather carry mine in comfort and ride it when I wanted to. Like the OP, I'm just to figure out how.

Steve

[FIRE UP]

Originally Posted by dix39

I chuckled at the "wonderfully smooth roads" comment also. We've gone from OR to WV and back taking various routes to see places we were interested in for the last 40 years. I've noticed those "wonderfully smooth roads".

My concern with using the "tray type" would not be with the tray itself, but with the P30 frame. There is already 1120 lbs of liquids + tanks hanging behind the rear axle + everything else. I haven't done any calculations, I'm just afraid it would be too much. If I did use the "tray" I would install a receiver on each side of the frame in addition to the receiver that is already there, much like I did with the 3' TC extension.

My current larger bike is a 500cc Silverwing that I got after determining that the Concours I had before it was too heavy after dropping it several times. At 78 I understand the comment about "younger, stouter". I also understand about different bike weights, I've had them all my life, starting with a 1947 61 cu in Harley in '57. I have a Navy friend who rode a 1800cc Goldwing from SC to OR and back to see us and others for 7 or 8 years just a few years ago. It's not something I would like, but they enjoyed it (I guess). I'd rather carry mine in comfort and ride it when I wanted to. Like the OP, I'm just to figure out how.

Steve

Steve,
At 500 cc, you're bordering between the need for an actual lift and, a receiver type hauler, "tray type". Bolstering the mounting system
with the use of two receivers, one on each frame end, will definitely allow for the ability to carry that 500 cc weight. But, just because you could and or would build the weight carrying carrier, that doesn't help with getting that monster up onto the tray and, getting it back off. As stated, my 275 lb. TW 200 Yamaha was a chore to keep it balanced and upright, as I "pushed" it up the ramp and, held it in place, while trying to hook up tie downs and all that.

We, (in our younger years) sometimes compromise physical health in an effort to satisfy our desires for playtime. In other, simpler words, I could have hurt myself very easily by putting that dam.. bike up there and removing it. But, wanting it at our destinations, was too much of a desire to think straight. Oh well. I survived.

Now, as for your situation. The first thing you, or anyone considering anything like this should do is, get your coach ready for a trip. That is, full water tank, full fuel tank, all supplies, tools, camp gear and anything you might normally need while on trips or camping. Then, cruise on down to anyplace that will weigh your coach. Don't worry about all this "four corner crap". Just get the front and rear axles weighed.

Then compare that weight to the GAWR of the rear. Don't worry about the front axle. You're not affecting the front axle. You're only affecting the rear if and when you apply the carrier and the weight of the bike. Yes, you'll be shifting some weight off the front but, so what? The motorhome will still drive.

Now, if the GAWR of the rear axle is lower than what your coaches rear axle came in at in the scales, then you'll have to determine if the additional weight, that far back, will or can be tolerated. Once the weight thing is thought out, then you'll now have to determine if the structural side of things is up to the task of handling whatever kind of addition you'll be adding to the end of the frame rails etc. If, you weigh the coach and find out that, the actual weight on the rear axle is very close or at, your rear axle GAWR, well then, only you can and will make the decision to move forward with your project. Good luck.
Scott

[znt1186]

Just sayin' that some roads could be better. Several years ago I was transporting several guys from Charlotte to the coast for a bachelor's party. On I85 north of Charlotte we went through a bridge construction zone where the road dropped off steeply for about three feet at the end of the bridge without warning. I glanced up in the mirror to see how everyone was doing and saw a 250 pound guy who had been resting about three feet off the bed . I had to rebuild the bed box when I got home because the impact load broke the connections at the corners and destroyed some of the sparse wood framing.

[dix39]

Scott, thanks for the explanation of how to determine if the Flair could carry the bike. My greatest concern would be with the structural ability, and as you pointed out, with the hitch. There would need to be more than just the hitch, which I believe is limited to 500 lbs down weight, to support and stabilize it. I'll do some more thinking about it with the help of your information. The Silverwing weights around 500 lbs., so you nailed that part of it pretty well.

Hearing your description of loading your bike brought back memories on me doing the same thing on a trailer. I had loaded the 90s many times by just running them up there under power, but they only weighted 200 lbs. The thing I wanted to get on there now was around 700 lbs (Concours). While I was sitting pondering the situation my younger son finally says, dad, let me do it for you. He simply started it, put it in 1st gear, and with one hand on the clutch and the other on the front wheel brake, drove it up the ramp as far as he could reach, then he got on the trailer and ran it the rest of the way on. After watching him, I did it the same way many times afterward with both the Connie and the Silverwing. I would consider doing the same thing with a "tray", but I'm a little older now so I would have to "feel it out".

For the OP, I did build a "tray" type carrier for the front of our TC years ago to carry a 90 on. I would guess it would carry more than the 90, but I don't know how much. I built two receivers and bolted them to the outside of the truck frame on both sides. Then built the part going into the receivers and supporting the frame from standard 2" 1/4 wall hitch tubing with a slight raise to get the "tray" a little higher. It did work for the 90, but I abandoned it in favor of a trailer and later hanging them on both ends of the Samurai and Tracker toads, because of the headlight situation. It just seemed easier to do it that way, and the trailer was there.The "tray" is laying out back, but the truck is gone. I could take a pic if you feel it would help you.

Steve