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Old 07-19-2023, 11:26 AM   #1
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NEMA 14-60P to NEMA 14-50P

We have a 250V, 60A NEMA 14-60P outlet that I'd like to use for our Class A. I found an adapter which will make the connection, but I want to be sure nothing will burn up, blow up or otherwise damage anything. Does anyone have any experience with such a connection? What should I be testing for?

(There is also this adapter, available in the US, on Amazon.)
Thanks in advance!

Mike
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Old 07-19-2023, 11:38 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmccallum View Post
We have a 250V, 60A NEMA 14-60P outlet that I'd like to use for our Class A. I found an adapter which will make the connection, but I want to be sure nothing will burn up, blow up or otherwise damage anything. Does anyone have any experience with such a connection? What should I be testing for?

(There is also this adapter, available in the US, on Amazon.)
Thanks in advance!

Mike
A NEMA 14-60P is a plug, while a NEMA 14-60R is a receptacle. Assuming you have the receptacle, you could use an adapter after first verifying that the 14-60R is wired with two hots with 240V between them and a neutral and ground in the proper locations. The 14-60 is a single phase but verify that is isn't wired for 3 phase, if this is a residence that will be highly unlikely as very few residences have 3 phase. (A 14-60 could have been for a kiln, welder or a piece of restaurant equipment)
A better option, in my opinion, would be to remove the 14-60R and replace it with a 14-50R, unless the 14-60 is still needed for something. Don't throw away the 14-60R as they are quite pricey.
To summarize, the adapter should work fine if the 14-60 was wired the way it normally is, but we have no way to know that without testing it. If it is wired differently you risk substantial damage to your rig.
You should also change the circuit breaker to a 50 amp if you change to a 14-50R. Legally you can leave it if you go the adapter route and keep the 14-60R as your RV 50 amp main will serve as the overcurrent protection.
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Old 07-19-2023, 11:38 AM   #3
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Your existing 14-60R should be fuse or breaker protected at 60 amp. the RV only needs a 50 amp fuse. Using the adapter would over fuse the RV by 10 amps which would Technoloy not cause a problem but it would not be a best practice to exceed the max fuse on anything. Best to change the breaker to an 50 amp 2 pole and replace the receptacle with a 14-50R device.
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Old 07-19-2023, 11:54 AM   #4
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The point I can't stress enough is to test what's there, or have it tested. Welding machines and EVs do not require a neutral, and if that's what the original circuit was for and they left the neutral out you will have damage if you plug in an RV.
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Old 07-19-2023, 12:00 PM   #5
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Test for 50 amp:


Outer straights are the HOTS (L1 and L2)
Center straight is the NEUTRAL
Center round is the GROUND


So, either outer straight to either center= 120 VAC
Center straight to center round= 0 VAC
Outer straight to outer straight= 240 VAC
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Old 07-19-2023, 12:05 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveh5525 View Post
Your existing 14-60R should be fuse or breaker protected at 60 amp. the RV only needs a 50 amp fuse. Using the adapter would over fuse the RV by 10 amps which would Technoloy not cause a problem but it would not be a best practice to exceed the max fuse on anything. Best to change the breaker to an 50 amp 2 pole and replace the receptacle with a 14-50R device.
Not really an issue, in my opinion. The RV main breaker is 50A, so the only thing at risk is the power cord itself, and the only is it gets shorted internally. The RV cannot draw more than 50A and the 60A source can't "push" more than 50A into it.
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Old 07-19-2023, 12:07 PM   #7
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Right. P versus R.

I can replace the 60A with a 50A, but meanwhile if I can use the adapter that is big. For some reason I thought this was not useable at all without needing some serious re-wiring but I am glad to know it's relatively simple.

How would I check for 3- versus 1-phase? Would I see that at the breaker box, or would I need to check another way?

Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigb56 View Post
A NEMA 14-60P is a plug, while a NEMA 14-60R is a receptacle. Assuming you have the receptacle, you could use an adapter after first verifying that the 14-60R is wired with two hots with 240V between them and a neutral and ground in the proper locations. The 14-60 is a single phase but verify that is isn't wired for 3 phase, if this is a residence that will be highly unlikely as very few residences have 3 phase. (A 14-60 could have been for a kiln, welder or a piece of restaurant equipment)
A better option, in my opinion, would be to remove the 14-60R and replace it with a 14-50R, unless the 14-60 is still needed for something. Don't throw away the 14-60R as they are quite pricey.
To summarize, the adapter should work fine if the 14-60 was wired the way it normally is, but we have no way to know that without testing it. If it is wired differently you risk substantial damage to your rig.
You should also change the circuit breaker to a 50 amp if you change to a 14-50R. Legally you can leave it if you go the adapter route and keep the 14-60R as your RV 50 amp main will serve as the overcurrent protection.
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Old 07-19-2023, 12:35 PM   #8
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well...

Well, I had a closer look at the receptacle and it says "50A" not "60A". So it looks like it's a NEMA 6-50R. Again, I can find adapters for this, but I'm wondering how this changes the equation.


I need to get a voltage tester with a higher capacity, I think.

Mike
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Old 07-19-2023, 12:42 PM   #9
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Well, I had a closer look at the receptacle and it says "50A" not "60A". So it looks like it's a NEMA 6-50R. Again, I can find adapters for this, but I'm wondering how this changes the equation.


I need to get a voltage tester with a higher capacity, I think.

Mike
This changes everything in a big way.
That is a 6-50R which is very common for a welding machine. It has no neutral. You definitely do not want to use that for an RV. It will work for an EV but it will fry your RV! Don't even think about it!!!
If for some reason they included a neutral in the cable (unlikely) to the box and there are 4 wires total then a qualified person could make an RV hookup out of this. Normally professional installers use the cable that suits the job and are not going to use a 4 wire cable if it's not needed but a handyman or DIY might.
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Old 07-19-2023, 01:12 PM   #10
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Thanks for this. This is what held me up before, but we have more impetus (approval from the CFO) to work this out.

It looks like they indeed ran a neutral. I found the correct 50A, 2 pole breaker and flipped it off, then opened the outlet cover. On the left side there is a white wire capped with electrical tape.

I will have my electrician set this up for me, but I want to understand it as I have heard bad things about electricians who aren't familiar with RV systems mis-wiring the outlet. I believe the main thing is to make sure that white wire is the neutral, and that gets wired in the 14-50 in addition to the two hots and the ground?

Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigb56 View Post
This changes everything in a big way.
That is a 6-50R which is very common for a welding machine. It has no neutral. You definitely do not want to use that for an RV. It will work for an EV but it will fry your RV! Don't even think about it!!!
If for some reason they included a neutral in the cable (unlikely) to the box and there are 4 wires total then a qualified person could make an RV hookup out of this. Normally professional installers use the cable that suits the job and are not going to use a 4 wire cable if it's not needed but a handyman or DIY might.
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Old 07-19-2023, 01:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmccallum View Post
Well, I had a closer look at the receptacle and it says "50A" not "60A". So it looks like it's a NEMA 6-50R. Again, I can find adapters for this, but I'm wondering how this changes the equation.


I need to get a voltage tester with a higher capacity, I think.

Mike
Do not use this. NEMA 6-xx is 250V and has NO NEUTRAL. Do not bootleg the neutral by jumping it to ground.

edit ps: just saw your last post. Your electrician will be able to determine if the white wire has been terminated (or even makes it back to the breaker panel). If so, this will be an easy job.
You will need an electrician to install a NEMA 14-50R.
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Old 07-19-2023, 01:20 PM   #12
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Yup, don't use it!


A knowledgeable electrician could "convert" it to 30 amp RV:


You already have a hot.
You already have a ground.


If the "other" hot is removed from the breaker at the house breaker box and connected to the neutral bus, you will have a 30 amp RV connection.


Note, a 30 amp RV is DIFFERENT from many house 30 amps, as only ONE HOT/ 120 VAC, not 240.


And cleaner to replace the duplex breaker in the house box with a single
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Old 07-19-2023, 01:23 PM   #13
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Thanks for this. This is what held me up before, but we have more impetus (approval from the CFO) to work this out.

It looks like they indeed ran a neutral. I found the correct 50A, 2 pole breaker and flipped it off, then opened the outlet cover. On the left side there is a white wire capped with electrical tape.

I will have my electrician set this up for me, but I want to understand it as I have heard bad things about electricians who aren't familiar with RV systems mis-wiring the outlet. I believe the main thing is to make sure that white wire is the neutral, and that gets wired in the 14-50 in addition to the two hots and the ground?

Mike
No need to worry, there is no difference between a NEMA 14-50 for an RV or for a kitchen range, there is only one way to wire it. The electrician will test afterwards to verify the neutral.
He will also verify the wire size as welding machines are allowed to use smaller wire on a bigger breaker per the duty cycle of the machine, but for the RV you will need 6AWG in order to use the 50 amp breaker. It looks like #6 from here but could be #8 which, in NM, only gets you 40 amps.

Looks like that may have been a prewire for the original buyer of the house when new. If we are asked to provide "220" to the garage for future shop use we go ahead and give them a 4 wire as we don't know what the future load will be. Even though they ask for "220" it is actually 240/120 that they get.
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Old 07-19-2023, 01:32 PM   #14
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Your existing 14-60R should be fuse or breaker protected at 60 amp. the RV only needs a 50 amp fuse. Using the adapter would over fuse the RV by 10 amps which would Technoloy not cause a problem but it would not be a best practice to exceed the max fuse on anything. Best to change the breaker to an 50 amp 2 pole and replace the receptacle with a 14-50R device.
Everyone says over fusing shouldn't be done but everybody plugs a 2 amp TV into a 15 amp outlet.
Can your TV power cord handle 15 amps, not likely.
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