Community Forums

DriVer · 12-08-2004, 05:53 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Lockman:
How about posting the decibel readings on the 8.1 vs. V10 @ 4250 RPM? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Mike T., I don't think that this data that we will see anytime soon however may I offer the following known engineering features for both chassis. The pre-2006 F-53's engine sits higher in the rails. Consequently the dog house is more pronounced becasue it sits higher. The interior of the doghouse cover for the most part on Detroit Chassis, Ford Powered motorhomes feature sound deadening coverings on the inside of the cover because the cover intrudes into the cocpit area. Doghouse covers et al are manufactured by the coach builder and may vary in sound absorption properties.

The Workhorse's engine sits lower in the rails and the doghouse is greatly reduced in height. The sound deadening material installed on my cover is minimal. Bacially it's backed up with a fairly thin, foil faced, heat shield. Due to the engine sitting lower in the rails a lot of the engine's sound is not thrust up into the cockpit space but exits toward the rear of the engine space.

Therefore the conclusion is that although both engines may in fact make the same amount of noise on an engine stand, the installation of each engine, and the noise we observe, will be different.

New for 2006 and beyong we see where Detroit Steel has widened the frame rails and lowered the V-10. This will be a good thing for F-53 powered motorhome buyers since the doghouse should achieve some what of the same profile as the typical doghouse we see in a Workhorse powered coach.

Lockman · 12-08-2004, 12:06 PM

Driver,

I respect your input very much, you have been a great help and advisor to many, including myself, but my point I am trying to make is that the V10 is inherently MUCH louder than the 8.1 no matter how much more insulated or how it is mounted. Just for discussion sake, lets say they are both mounted on engine stands and are run. The noise from the 8.1 may register at 80 db's, where the V10 would come in at 110/120 db's.

I could not carry on a conversation with my wife without yelling in my V10, but now in my Gulfstream W22 I can talk to her in normal tones just as in the car. It is much more pleaseant on the road.

I liked the power of the V10 after installing Banks, and it is a great engine. To reduce the noise, they need to reduce the number of pistons. Why don't they re-work the 460 as Chev did the 454?

DriVer · 12-08-2004, 01:09 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Lockman:
but my point I am trying to make is that the V10 is inherently MUCH louder than the 8.1 no matter how much more insulated or how it is mounted. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Oh!

Bill used to run a V-10 in his Mirada and he said is was pretty loud and he added an aftermarket doghouse cover and it seemed to work well.

He actually got the noise down to where to dog stopped howling !!

Just kidding, but he did say that it made a big improvement as far as the noise level and I believe it also kept the doghouse exterior cooler to the touch.

He wrote a review about it in the product review forum but that was back in the day.

Retired House Husband · 12-08-2004, 04:19 PM

Now this is getting interesting. I can't believe any one can hear the pistons moving up and down in their bore. Let alone tell the difference in piston sound between 8 & 10 cylinders. Inherently the more cylinders in an engine, the quieter it is due to more power over lap. The more power over lap there is, the less mechanical vibration there is. Also the exhaust noise will be reduced with more power over lap. I do believe most of the noise being generated is caused by the design of the cooling fan and shroud, and the fact that Fords turns higher RPMs per given speed than Chebbys.

Gary RVRoamer · 12-09-2004, 05:30 AM

Richard is right on. A V10 is inherently quieter than a V8 and more cylinders is better, not worse, for noise. That doesn't mean the Ford V10 isn't noisy, though, since many factors influence the noise generated in a mechanical device. It's all a matter of eliminating vibration, whatever the source.

As Driver so well explained, the W2x is quieter primarily because of the lower engine mounting. Coach builders don't have to do as much to shield the noise, something coach builders have not done well at anyway.

Lockman · 12-09-2004, 01:32 PM

OK, Guys I repectfully dissagree. More pistons equals more noise. I suggest banging ten smaller spoons on ten pans than eight bigger spoons on eight pans is going to create more noise. You CAN hear the pistons going up and down, what pray tell is creating the noise you hear? The crank turning, vales opening and closing, etc.?

What's with the fan shroud? When cooling fans kick in, they are about equal on both that I have owned. If more pistons were better and quieter, why did Lincoln stop making the V12 and Cadillac and Packard the V16? Why not a V32? The pistons would be about the diameter of a pencil. The Ford V10 is much noisier, period.

Mike T.

LVJ58 · 12-13-2004, 04:44 PM

Well, just to keep this "Noise Level" thing going, our 2000 rig with the V10 is relatively quiet and smooth running until the fan clutch engages. It's still smooth but fan does get a bit noisy, but nothing like our old rig with the 454.

Happy Holidays to all, Jim

tmitchell · 12-14-2004, 03:47 AM

Jim,
The same thing with the 8.1 in my last coach a 2002 DS 3456. The noise level of the engine was low, but when the fan clutch engaged (with a roar) it was annoyingly noisey. At times it would engage in the mid 80 degree range on flat ground without my toad with us.

Rapid Ray · 12-14-2004, 04:56 AM

Don't forget to add that constant whine noise from the Allison tranny. I am blessed with selective hearing, learned after many years of nagging.

DriVer · 12-14-2004, 06:47 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Rapid Ray:
Don't forget to add that constant whine noise from the Allison tranny. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Better the "whine" of the Allison than the sound of the E4OD's slip, sliding away. I did fix that by the way with a Banks Trans Command.

tmcgeesr · 01-07-2005, 03:56 AM

Ford V-10 is a fine power plant, we love ours. The addition of a 5 speed would be nice.

It is higher reving, but designed for it. As long as you keep it it under 4,000 rpm (my preference) it will pull a stump!!! The V-10 has a very impressive record.

As for all this talk about W22 W24 chassis for what? Unless you are wanting something over 37 feet with 4 slide outs you don't need it. And all that weight taxes even an 8.1 triton.

And then there is the tires. 22.5 versus 19.5. The W22's I have seen are higher off the ground (some with 4 steps from the ground), and you lose your spare!

I'll keep mine!

Thank You!

CAD-Man · 01-09-2005, 04:46 PM

Warning Soapbox time!!

In the original post it was stated that the new Ford chassis may be a Chevy killer. This is a pet peeve of mine, there is not a Chevy chassis for Ford to kill, it is a Workhorse, Chevy has not made a Motorhome chassis since 2001. So please use the name Workhorse if you mean Workhorse and not Chevy.

OK I'm off my Soapbox now

DriVer · 01-10-2005, 02:16 PM

I just also want to add that Ford doesn't make a motorhome chassis as far as I know. The Ford powered chassis is made by Detroit Chassis using Ford engines and transmissions.

The GM 8.1 does not have any problem pulling a 38G down the road I can tell you that first hand. Having just arrived here in Tampa, FL my W22 is as close to being at GVW as a motorhome can get but not over. We had a wonderful ride.

We have been dumping stuff overboard from just about every compartment starting with 2 huge wheel chocks that I hope MikeT is already using on the "flip" pallet truck.

We have put away all the stuff we brought from our home and we still have a little more room but since I'm the load master we are not pushing the envelope.

The last time that I calculated my MPGs we were getting consistent high sevens and on this last run coming down from Jekyll Island to Southern Aire I am showing 8.1 MPG.

What makes the W22 and the W24 current state of the art motorhome chassis is the way they are built. The frame steel is as strong as a diesel pusher being made from 50,000 psi steel. The strongest house is only as good as its foundation and the Workhorse W Series has a great foundation.

The torque and horsepower provided by the 8.1 Vortec is adequate to pull any GVW rating that is specified for either W Series. The final drive gearing is the trick that does the job.

Allison is the defacto standard in motorhome automatic transmissions, ask anybody. With the W24 design team choosing the 2100MH we clearly see that WCC has not simply delivered lip service to its customers. Rated at 30,000 GCWR the W24 is the one and only gas powered motorhome that not only moves the load with authority but stops the load with its quad-hydraulic brakes.

Shifting through the gears like the RDP crowd, the touch shifter keypad adds a luxury to gas powered motorhomes previously unheard of.

You might ask who needs it? About that let me say this, just about every OEM manufacturer "needs" it and they are all either producing coaches on the W24 or plan to do so shortly. You know why? Because customers have demanded that the OEMs produce these things and that's just exactly what they are doing.

I will be attending the FRVTA SuperShow in Tampa beginning on January 12th. If you would like a private outing in a Workhorse powered motorhome just shoot me and e-mail and I'll get a block of time and we'll go out for a ride in either the W24 or the "new" R-Series Rear Diesel Pusher.

DriVer · 01-10-2005, 02:29 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by tmcgeesr:
The W22's I have seen are higher off the ground (some with 4 steps from the ground), and you lose your spare! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The view is much better on 22.5 inch tires not to mention the ride quality being much improved. Having owned both, there is no comparison.

By the way the 22.5 inch equipped coaches only have 3 steps.

Loosing a spare depends on who you are. We have several folks here how have made their own 22.5 inch tire carrier.

About spares let me say this. I saw a high-end RDP sitting in the center median today on the I-75 and he totally shredded his left front tire. it was a mess.

Even IF he had a spare, there would be no way for the driver of that rig to change the tire. Having a spare may expedite getting back on the road however we have been fortunate in that we haven't had a flat with our current MH.

On our previous MH we had 19.5 inch tires and we did have a spare. When the guy showed up as called from Coach Net, he just about could change a flat on a car and didn't have any means of changing a flat on a 19.5 inch motorhome. I had to wait an additional 2 hours for Coach Net to find a vendor that could change the tire. When they showed up, they didn't have any means to jack up the MH so I had to offer the use of my leveling jacks.

It's all a big dice game you roll the dice and whatever comes up you play with.

One more thing that would burn me up would be to have to buy a new spare tire just because the DOT date expired.