Onboard water system problems at -8 degrees.

[Full.Monte]

In order to appear like less of a dummy to you, I'll explain how we got into this mess. We were doing an off-season tour of the Grand Canyon, Bryce and Zion. We were doing our planning on the road. We called Bryce RV Resort phone number. They said they were open. Turned out the campground was closed for the season. So, when we showed up and went into the lodge (same ownership as the campground), they offered us a space behind the hotel that had about 10 RV spaces. They said they had no water available. That was OK with me because we had 2/3 of a tank. So we pulled in and hooked up to the electric supply. I was a little leery of the possible night temperatures at 9,000 ft in a place with some snow on the ground. We turned on the water heater and went to bed. Overnight, it snowed and got down to -8 F. The next morning, no water came out of the taps. I figured we had a big block of ice in the tank and maybe the water lines and pump had frozen. After the day warmed up and we came back from sightseeing, the water pump worked, but the monitor showed an empty water tank. We had 2/3 of a tank when we arrived and hadn't used any. After we got down to a lower altitude at Zion, we filled the tank (again) and everything seemed OK with the exception that the water pump seemed a bit weaker than normal. If anyone can explain all this, I'd appreciate it. Now I'm thinking I should replace my water pump and maybe keep the old one as an emergency spare, perhaps with a new kit. (Until your water system fails, you probably take a water pump for granted). My pump is one of the noisy 2088-403-144 series. What should I replace it with? It draws 5 amps and is rated at 45 psi. If I'm buying a pump, I'd like a quieter one. Thanks for any help! Now...about that furnace system...but that's a different post.

[bobandshaz]

Get Murphy out of the coach.

[mel s]

Originally Posted by Full.Monte

My pump is one of the noisy 2088-403-144 series. If I'm buying a pump, I'd like a quieter one. Thanks for any help!

Full.Monte
Here's how to quiet a noisy RV water pump:
Low Tech RVing: Silence Those Noisy Water Issues
BTW, if the pipes connected to the water pump are ridged, replace the first foot or so with flexible reinforced hose, (like this: Pvc Nylon Reinforced Hose, Pvc Nylon Reinforced Hose Products, Pvc Nylon Reinforced Hose Suppliers and Manufacturers at Alibaba.com
to both the input and output of the pump.
Mel
'96 Safari

[GaryKD]

Hi Full.Monte,
Consider finding out where the 2/3 tank of water went. This might be a high priority item.

Overall, very cold weather combined with low temps bring out the worst in a coach. except for making sure you have no leaks, cracks, etc. in the water system I'd do nothing until you return to the altitude and temps the coach usually enjoys. If things still don't feel right, then repair what you are uncomfortable with.

I'm surprised you have not mentioned anything about the batteries. What you went through usually takes its' toll on the batteries.

[Rich and Cork]

Years ago we spent Christmas at my BIL's home in Spanish Fork, Utah. Ran out of propane. Couldn't pump water. It had been very cold. Don't remember how cold. Went and filled up the propane tank. Ran the heater all day, had hair drier on all the exposed pipes. This was a Bounder, so all the pipes inside. After a couple of days we could still not pump water. A line somewhere obviously had an ice plug. Going down the 15 we stopped in Cedar City and finally had running water. I thought for sure with all the heat we were putting out we would have defrozened (word?) everything.

Maybe things will be better tomorrow.

Love that area in the snow. Enjoy it.

[Full.Monte]

Originally Posted by GaryKD

Hi Full.Monte,
Consider finding out where the 2/3 tank of water went. This might be a high priority item.

Overall, very cold weather combined with low temps bring out the worst in a coach. except for making sure you have no leaks, cracks, etc. in the water system I'd do nothing until you return to the altitude and temps the coach usually enjoys. If things still don't feel right, then repair what you are uncomfortable with.

I'm surprised you have not mentioned anything about the batteries. What you went through usually takes its' toll on the batteries.

Gary, the water didn't leak out because it didn't leak later on after refilling. The coach was plugged into shore power, so the batteries were fully charged. Thanks for the thoughts.

[Full.Monte]

Originally Posted by Rich and Cork

Years ago we spent Christmas at my BIL's home in Spanish Fork, Utah. Ran out of propane. Couldn't pump water. It had been very cold. Don't remember how cold. Went and filled up the propane tank. Ran the heater all day, had hair drier on all the exposed pipes. This was a Bounder, so all the pipes inside. After a couple of days we could still not pump water. A line somewhere obviously had an ice plug. Going down the 15 we stopped in Cedar City and finally had running water. I thought for sure with all the heat we were putting out we would have defrozened (word?) everything.

Maybe things will be better tomorrow.

Love that area in the snow. Enjoy it.

Hi, I'm wondering if it would be smart to rig up a recirculating water line that would occasionally pump hot water out of the water heater into the main water tank and suck cold water from the main into the water heater.
If it was thermostatically controlled, theoretically, it would cycle on only when it was needed to keep the main tank and pump from freezing.

[Full.Monte]

Originally Posted by mel stuplich

Full.Monte
Here's how to quiet a noisy RV water pump:
Low Tech RVing: Silence Those Noisy Water Issues
BTW, if the pipes connected to the water pump are ridged, replace the first foot or so with flexible reinforced hose, (like this: Pvc Nylon Reinforced Hose, Pvc Nylon Reinforced Hose Products, Pvc Nylon Reinforced Hose Suppliers and Manufacturers at Alibaba.com
to both the input and output of the pump.
Mel
'96 Safari

Good article, Mel...thanks. I'll consider it when I get another pump to install.

[Tha_Rooster]

Just wondering at-8 did you stay warm I could not imagine.

[grandpatime]

I have found my water pump strainer cracked after a deep freeze and it did cause some wierd noise and erraatic water delievery

[Bigd9]

We camped when temperatures got down to -7 once in an older Discovery. The big worry was what to do if we suddenly lost heat for some reason. At those temperatures you need a backup plan.

In our Discovery everything was find, but in the morning we awoke to a perplexing sight. Moisture inside the coach had frozen to the walls in long strips from floor to ceiling. The coach was made using aluminum studs and you could see each and every stud outlined in frost! The interior room temperatures were fine but the frozen frosty strips stayed with us till things warmed up a bit outside.

[Full.Monte]

Originally Posted by Tha_Rooster

Just wondering at-8 did you stay warm I could not imagine.

I wouldn't say we kept warm, but our little electric heater kept us from freezing to death. We were plugged in, so that was our safety backup. I'll never travel without a small heater from now on.

[wa8yxm]

At -8 you did not have a water system, You had an ICE system.

The good news: Most of the water lines in your RV are made of PEX. PEX freezes well and does not burst like copper or iron pipe can.. This was recently demonstrated with an on line video you can find on You tube but I do not have the link or title. I did, however watch it.

THE FITTINGS however, Elbows, connections to valves and faucets, and those faucets as well, The solenoid on the ice maker (Suspect #1) and so on, These are NOT PEX, and they do not survive freezing nearly as well.

Last time I froze it was a single pex line, no damage (11 degrees)

Last time I froze HARD (-6) I lost a fitting on the city water inlet. Cost me less than 10 bucks to fix.

I also lost a Ice Maker solenoid, Those sell for 15 to 150 depending on where you buy them.. NOTE: they are all basically the same and for the most part interchangable.. You may need to drill a new mounting hole or 3, but the only real difference between them are as follows

Some are layed out liek this --In--Solenoid--Out

Some like this

Soleonid---Out
. IN

Some have quarter inch compression inlets (All have quarter inch compression outlets)
Some have 3/4 Inch garden hose inlets.

Some come with adapters so you can use either feed.

[Full.Monte]

Originally Posted by wa8yxm

At -8 you did not have a water system, You had an ICE system.

The good news: Most of the water lines in your RV are made of PEX. PEX freezes well and does not burst like copper or iron pipe can.. This was recently demonstrated with an on line video you can find on You tube but I do not have the link or title. I did, however watch it.

THE FITTINGS however, Elbows, connections to valves and faucets, and those faucets as well, The solenoid on the ice maker (Suspect #1) and so on, These are NOT PEX, and they do not survive freezing nearly as well.

Last time I froze it was a single pex line, no damage (11 degrees)

Last time I froze HARD (-6) I lost a fitting on the city water inlet. Cost me less than 10 bucks to fix.

I also lost a Ice Maker solenoid, Those sell for 15 to 150 depending on where you buy them.. NOTE: they are all basically the same and for the most part interchangable.. You may need to drill a new mounting hole or 3, but the only real difference between them are as follows

Some are layed out liek this --In--Solenoid--Out

Some like this

Soleonid---Out
. IN

Some have quarter inch compression inlets (All have quarter inch compression outlets)
Some have 3/4 Inch garden hose inlets.

Some come with adapters so you can use either feed.

We don't have an ice maker, so I guess we dodged that bullet.