Post your OCCC!

[permitwriter]

It's gratifying to see all the concerns expressed about weight ratings. When I finally weighed our 1st rig and discovered it was about 1000 lbs. over weight, it became an obsession. I used to wonder if I was overreacting. I eventually got an empty weight and discovered it was about 300 lbs. overweight empty. That reduced the OCCC to about 1200. After DW, me and the dog, we had about 800. DW is disabled so we carry about 300 lbs. of equipment to deal with that. That left 500 lbs. I once told her that if she, the dog and all their stuff stayed home, there would be plenty of weight capacity. That didn't go over real well..... and I would really miss the dog.

[Doug_T]

Originally Posted by permitwriter

It's gratifying to see all the concerns expressed about weight ratings. When I finally weighed our 1st rig and discovered it was about 1000 lbs. over weight, it became an obsession. I used to wonder if I was overreacting. I eventually got an empty weight and discovered it was about 300 lbs. overweight empty. That reduced the OCCC to about 1200. After DW, me and the dog, we had about 800. DW is disabled so we carry about 300 lbs. of equipment to deal with that. That left 500 lbs. I once told her that if she, the dog and all their stuff stayed home, there would be plenty of weight capacity. That didn't go over real well..... and I would really miss the dog.

By 300 lbs overweight do you mean that the OCCC was 300 pounds less than the yellow tag?

I can't agree more that it becomes an obsession and stays that way for some time!

Are you referring to your Canyon Star? Wonder how you're supposed to use a toy hauler for toy hauling if you're already overweight! I also guess that your front axle is close to overweight from the factory.

Edit: didn't realize that that's the 3513 model

[permitwriter]

Originally Posted by Doug_T

So then what are you guys putting in your MH to be heavy? I really cant think of any way i could travel much heavier than. I suppose that the larger storage capacity on class As makes people come up with things!

A full array of hand tools, battery powered tools, an air compressor, bottle jack and misc. hardware supplies.
Pellet smoker/grill (50 lbs.) - I use it almost every trip (made beef jerky this time).
Fuel tanks and accessories for the Blackstone.
Extension cords - 50 amp, 30 amp(2), 12 gauge (3), several smaller.
Milwaukee vacuum because it can be a lot simpler than the central vac and it can be a blower.
Plastic folding step stool, bigger aluminum step stool, short step ladder with 4 steps and a telescoping ladder.
Decorations for inside and out.
Axe, hatchet, small hand sledge.
300 lbs. or more because DW is disabled (lift chair, 3 and 4 wheel scooters, transport chair, office chair, etc.).
Campfire tools including cooking tools.
2 small outdoor carpets.
Weight to hold the sewer hose in place.
Leveling pads, blocks, 2x8 pieces & ramps, and chocks.
All the stuff for our dog.
Entertainment stuff such as DVDs, reading materials, puzzles, cards, art supplies, etc.
Laptop and a small printer/copier/scanner.
I'm an avid hobbyist photographer so I have a lot of photography equipment.
Plastic box for campfires - kindling, fire starters, newspapers and box board.
Many, many other small, lightweight items.

Yes, I know where everything is in the basement because it's all written down by compartment (and I have unused room - volume not weight).

I guess you're right. A big class A (36') can carry a lot more than a 24' class C so I utilize the space. I sometimes think about smaller and simpler but between my personality and DWs disabilities, it isn't happening. Funny thing though, we started with a tent, screenhouse and a little Datsun pickup, but that was pre disabilities. And we were young weekend warriors back then. Now, we're old farts and a week long trip is short for us.

[permitwriter]

Originally Posted by Doug_T

By 300 lbs overweight do you mean that the OCCC was 300 pounds less than the yellow tag? Yes, that's a another way to explain it. It would be the Unloaded Vehicle weight that was 300 lbs. over.

I can't agree more that it becomes an obsession and stays that way for some time!

Are you referring to your Canyon Star? Wonder how you're supposed to use a toy hauler for toy hauling if you're already overweight! I also guess that your front axle is close to overweight from the factory. No, the WBGO. Our Canyon Star is a pre toy hauler gas version. I think that the toy hauler diesels started in '20 or '21.

Edit: didn't realize that that's the 3513 model

...

[Doug_T]

Originally Posted by permitwriter

A full array of hand tools, battery powered tools, an air compressor, bottle jack and misc. hardware supplies.
Pellet smoker/grill (50 lbs.) - I use it almost every trip (made beef jerky this time).
Fuel tanks and accessories for the Blackstone.
Extension cords - 50 amp, 30 amp(2), 12 gauge (3), several smaller.
Milwaukee vacuum because it can be a lot simpler than the central vac and it can be a blower.
Plastic folding step stool, bigger aluminum step stool, short step ladder with 4 steps and a telescoping ladder.
Decorations for inside and out.
Axe, hatchet, small hand sledge.
300 lbs. or more because DW is disabled (lift chair, 3 and 4 wheel scooters, transport chair, office chair, etc.).
Campfire tools including cooking tools.
2 small outdoor carpets.
Weight to hold the sewer hose in place.
Leveling pads, blocks, 2x8 pieces & ramps, and chocks.
All the stuff for our dog.
Entertainment stuff such as DVDs, reading materials, puzzles, cards, art supplies, etc.
Laptop and a small printer/copier/scanner.
I'm an avid hobbyist photographer so I have a lot of photography equipment.
Plastic box for campfires - kindling, fire starters, newspapers and box board.
Many, many other small, lightweight items.

Yes, I know where everything is in the basement because it's all written down by compartment (and I have unused room - volume not weight).

I guess you're right. A big class A (36') can carry a lot more than a 24' class C so I utilize the space. I sometimes think about smaller and simpler but between my personality and DWs disabilities, it isn't happening. Funny thing though, we started with a tent, screenhouse and a little Datsun pickup, but that was pre disabilities. And we were young weekend warriors back then. Now, we're old farts and a week long trip is short for us.

I wonder how loaded down full time RVers are! With a small class C I clearly underestimate how many things can be put inside a big MH!

[NXR]

Originally Posted by Doug_T

I wonder how loaded down full time RVers are! With a small class C I clearly underestimate how many things can be put inside a big MH!

A lot. That was a reason for the RVIA changing their tire rules in the Fall of 2018 or thereabouts.

Previously there was no standard. An RV manufacturer could install tires, that when inflated to the sidewall pressure, totaled to the same weight as the axle GAWR.

Now the RVIA requires at least a 10% "safety margin" but that still depends on a properly-inflated tire for the actual weight.

So if the axle is 10,000 lbs GAWR then the RV manufacturer used to be able to install two 5,000 lb-rated tires. Now they have to install two 5,500 lb-rated tires.

In contrast, a car typically has 20% or more safety margin built in.

My Sonata tire sticker says to use 35 PSI as the recommended pressure (because it's less than 10,000 GVWR). The tires have a maximum cold pressure of 51 PSI.

Yes, that means if your RV was manufactured prior to Sept. 1, 2018 (I think it was) the tires may be barely legal IF you do not overload one side or both sides of the axle.

Ray

[DarkSideJeep]

Originally Posted by NXR

A lot. That was a reason for the RVIA changing their tire rules in the Fall of 2018 or thereabouts.

Previously there was no standard. An RV manufacturer could install tires, that when inflated to the sidewall pressure, totaled to the same weight as the axle GAWR.

Now the RVIA requires at least a 10% "safety margin" but that still depends on a properly-inflated tire for the actual weight.

So if the axle is 10,000 lbs GAWR then the RV manufacturer used to be able to install two 5,000 lb-rated tires. Now they have to install two 5,500 lb-rated tires.

In contrast, a car typically has 20% or more safety margin built in.

My Sonata tire sticker says to use 35 PSI as the recommended pressure (because it's less than 10,000 GVWR). The tires have a maximum cold pressure of 51 PSI.

Yes, that means if your RV was manufactured prior to Sept. 1, 2018 (I think it was) the tires may be barely legal IF you do not overload one side or both sides of the axle.

Ray

My 2018 Thor ACE, that I believe was assembled in late 2017 had tires that would hold the Gross axle weight rating when inflated to 82PSI. The front tires were capable of supporting nearly 1300# more than the 7000# front axle weight rating. The rear tires were capable of supporting 2400# more than the 12000# rear Grose axle weight rating. That is and 18% safety factor for the front and a 20% safety factor for the rear.

Say what you will about Thor Quality this is one place where no one would / should have any complaints.

Apparently your blanket statement does not apply to all 18K F53 Chassis on Thor coaches.

[Doug_T]

Originally Posted by DarkSideJeep

My 2018 Thor ACE, that I believe was assembled in late 2017 had tires that would hold the Gross axle weight rating when inflated to 82PSI. The front tires were capable of supporting nearly 1300# more than the 7000# front axle weight rating. The rear tires were capable of supporting 2400# more than the 12000# rear Grose axle weight rating. That is and 18% safety factor for the front and a 20% safety factor for the rear.

Say what you will about Thor Quality this is one place where no one would / should have any complaints.

Apparently your blanket statement does not apply to all 18K F53 Chassis on Thor coaches.

Same here on my 2020 navion! Almost a 40 percent safety margin. Can't get better than that.

Edit: also apparently these tires can go up to 99mph.

[NXR]

Originally Posted by DarkSideJeep

Apparently your blanket statement does not apply to all 18K F53 Chassis on Thor coaches.

It was not a blanket statement other than that the standard change applied to all RVIA RVs.

Motorhomes generally have tires installed by the chassis manufacturer, not the final vehicle builder as a trailer chassis can have.

Ray

[Davishouse2]

OCCC for 2014 Winnebago VIA 25P: 1,358 Lbs

[FLRVingBob]

OCCC is a measure of GVWR less the empty weight (with full engine operating fluid..fuel, oil, DEF, coolant,etc.). OCCCs from the factory are notoriously wrong... and not in your favor. Caoch may get weighed before options are added or even all included accessories are in place. Contrary to some comments, some OCCCs are "calculated" most are never accurate as there is never full fuel or full def... Thr only way to truly know is to do the process I outlined early in this conversation..... As they say in accouting..."figures lie and liers figure"... that is clearly ture of the RV industry...

[DarkSideJeep]

Originally Posted by FLRVingBob

OCCC is a measure of GVWR less the empty weight (with full engine operating fluid..fuel, oil, DEF, coolant,etc.). OCCCs from the factory are notoriously wrong... and not in your favor. Caoch may get weighed before options are added or even all included accessories are in place. Contrary to some comments, some OCCCs are "calculated" most are never accurate as there is never full fuel or full def... Thr only way to truly know is to do the process I outlined early in this conversation..... As they say in accouting..."figures lie and liers figure"... that is clearly ture of the RV industry...

That is "Figures don't lie but Liars sure know how to figure."
.

[NXR]

Originally Posted by FLRVingBob

OCCC is a measure of GVWR less the empty weight (with full engine operating fluid..fuel, oil, DEF, coolant,etc.). OCCCs from the factory are notoriously wrong... and not in your favor. Coach may get weighed before options are added or even all included accessories are in place.

Contrary to some comments, some OCCCs are "calculated" most are never accurate as there is never full fuel or full def...

Since you seem to be aware of actual examples of inaccurate OCCC stickers I would encourage you to file an NHTSA complaint so that they can be reviewed for a recall because inaccurate OCCC stickers are considered to be a vehicle defect, just like inaccurate tire pressure stickers are.

That being said, I'd guess you are speaking of old examples so there would be no real point nowadays.

Since June 2, 2008, the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards have required accurate OCCC stickers on all motor vehicles, including motorhomes, and accurate CCC stickers on all trailers, including RV trailers.

"Fuel", "DEF", and similar fluids required for the vehicle to operate are never considered to be "cargo" unless they are contained in what the NPRM called "surplus" tanks.

Unlike when you wrote "and never in your favor", a manufacturer is permitted to under-state the OCCC for their own reasons. But the manufacturer is never allowed to over-state the actual OCCC, not even on cars and trucks. That's why it would be considered a vehicle defect.

In addition, if prior to the first sale, a dealer or alterer adds more than 100 lbs or 1.5% of the GVWR (whichever is less) to the new vehicle, the dealer or alterer is mandated to add a new sticker located very close to the original OCCC sticker showing how much weight they added and thus how much the OCCC decreased.

One example is if a new coach goes out to be changed to be handicap-accessible. If the vehicle has never been sold that company must add the new sticker showing how much the OCCC was decreased.

--------------------

All in all, while this has been an interesting thread, it's really only of practical use for someone buying a "new to them" motorhome of the same type and model and model year as someone who responded.

Since owners add permanently-affixed items all the time the original OCCC is simply an "It only goes down from here" thing.

Added a steering stabilizer? Your OCCC just went down. Added an extra rear sway bar? Your OCCC just went down. Heck, when I changed from Michelin tires to Toyo tires I was surprised to see the Toyos were 8 lbs heavier each so I lost 50 lbs. Then I went and added Cenrtamatic dynamic balancers and lost a few more dozen pounds of OCCC.

(PLEASE, no one jump in about "sprung" weight and "unsprung" weight! That's not helpful in this context.)

--------------------

This thread contains great information if all it does is to bring awareness to people who were completely unaware of the massive variability that can exist between two seemingly-identical coaches or how OCCC-limited certain models really are.

This thread could help keep people from buying a very expensive vehicle that could never meet their needs safely and that is a good thing.

Job well done, folks, and thanks to the OP for starting it.

Ray


PS: This is my running paper tracking of items I have added. I still do a CAT Scale weighing every year to assure we're OK. It definitely illustrates how 25 pounds here and 25 pounds there all adds up. These items alone decreased my factory OCCC of 2,838 lbs to an actual OCCC of 2,288 lbs or a loss of 20% of the ability to carry "owner-added junk" safely.

ITEMS PERMANENTLY ADDED

AFT OF REAR AXLE:

- Hughes 50-amp Autoformer in rear electrical bay: +38 lbs.

- Roadmaster supplemental rear sway bar: +90 lbs.

- New 12" mattress instead of old 8" mattress: maybe 70 lbs. More? Who knows? Not the mattress company because houses don't care.

- Slide skis, 1/8" stainless steel, 14 plates: +105 lbs.

- Flat tow equipment (should be a wash with the dolly)

- Rear trac bar: +29 lbs

Approx. total: 330 lbs


BETWEEN AXLES:

- Safe-T-Plus steering stabilizer: +20 lbs

- Sliding shelves under dinette: +26 lbs.

- Change to AGM house batteries, about 8' behind front axle: +30 lbs.

- Suburban cast iron cooking grate: +7 lbs.

- CatStrap catalytic converter anti-theft device: +15 lbs.

- JC Refrigeration cooling unit: +72 lbs.

- 30' 50-amp extension cord: +22 lbs.

- Telesteps 7' folding ladder: +25 lbs.

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Above total to about 550 lbs. but some are shipping weight.
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