Community Forums

Furniss · 01-12-2016, 07:46 AM

It is time to clean the radiator and CAC. I would also like to replace the following:
Belts: Serpentine and Water Pump
Hoses: Top and Bottom Radiator
Belt Tensioner for serpentine belt

Any recommendations for any other parts to replace while the radiator is out? Does anyone have the part numbers for the listed parts?
Any videos available to assist me with the disassembly?

Walter
2007 Fleetwood Discovery 39V with
2006 CAT C7 330 HP

jacwjames · 01-12-2016, 08:42 AM

You may consider changing your thermostat since the coolant is already drained from the engine.

mel s · 01-12-2016, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Furniss

It is time to clean the radiator and CAC. I would also like to replace the following:
Belts: Serpentine and Water Pump
Hoses: Top and Bottom Radiator
Belt Tensioner for serpentine belt
Any recommendations for any other parts to replace while the radiator is out? Does anyone have the part numbers for the listed parts?
Any videos available to assist me with the disassembly?
Walter
2007 Fleetwood Discovery 39V with
2006 CAT C7 330 HP

Furniss
It's not necessary to remove the CAC & radiator for cleaning.
See: How To Help Your Radiator Keep the Engine Cool
AND:
"Diesel Engine Cooling Systems" here: Diesel Motorhome Chassis Service
Mel
'96 Safari, 145k miles

1ciderdog · 01-12-2016, 10:59 AM

You may want to replace the fan bearing. Seems to be a weak point on some C-7's.

Furniss · 01-13-2016, 05:10 PM

Thank you to those who replied to my post . I should have included more detail to my original post . We have tried the usual Simple Green and the degreaser to clean the fins . Little to no results were achieved . Except for about a 24 inch circle in the center of the radiator there is no air flow through the radiator. I attribute the stoppage to , mud in Utah , chip and stone roads in Nevada and many more miles on back roads across the nation . Even a pressure washer does not push out the debris . Also I want to replace the hoses , belts , thermostats , and fan shaft bearing before our next trip . It's easier and less expensive to do it at my shop then on the side of the road .

Walter
2007 Fleetwood Discovery 39V
2006 Cat C7 330

Ray,IN · 01-13-2016, 09:15 PM

Usually the serpentine belt fails at about 100,000 miles. The idler pulleys are also nearly worn-out at that time. I always install new idler pulleys when changing the serpentine or V belt - before it breaks!
Serpentine belts wear out the grooves, Carquest used to give away a groove measurement tool to measure wear. This is in addition to observing lateral cracks in belts.

TQ60 · 01-13-2016, 09:25 PM

Check for a supply house that supports the pro HVAC guys as they have a magic cleaner specific for ac coils that is very aggressive to dirt but safe to the unit.

Spray on soak and rinse repeat if needed.

Home Depot may have a retail grade.

Do not pressure wash as it causes damage.

Just low pressure spray from water hose.

Sams has hand pump grill and oven cleaner that is fantastic but it will attack aluminum and paint does not have a chance but a spray and count to 20 then rinse may do if real bad as last resort.

Ray,IN · 01-14-2016, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TQ60

Check for a supply house that supports the pro HVAC guys as they have a magic cleaner specific for ac coils that is very aggressive to dirt but safe to the unit.

Spray on soak and rinse repeat if needed.

Home Depot may have a retail grade.

Do not pressure wash as it causes damage.

Just low pressure spray from water hose.

Sams has hand pump grill and oven cleaner that is fantastic but it will attack aluminum and paint does not have a chance but a spray and count to 20 then rinse may do if real bad as last resort.

That's what I do for anything that has a "radiator". It's called Coil Cleaner, available at any home supply store or hardware store. All it is, is a HD concentrated detergent in spray form.

Bigd9 · 01-14-2016, 10:58 AM

Hi Walter
The usual problem areas I hear about are the water pump bearing, and air conditioner compressor/bearing. I had a belt tensioner bearing go out once but it was on a previous coach. Also take a close look at the surge tank. Plenty of stories where that white plastic tank on the upper passenger side of the radiator cracks.

Others have removed the radiators and comments are usually "took two days to get out, but if I had to do it again I could do it in 3 hours. But then that is always the case, right? The radiator is heavy and may require a helper to keep from dropping and damaging it.

Another idea some have done is to cut a rectangle shape hole on the top of the black plastic shroud that covers and connects the CAG and the radiator. You can see it when you remove the floor from inside the rear closet. Others have reported once they cut that hole they could look between the CAG/Radiator and see LOTS of dirt sticking to the radiator fins and blocking the airflow. Once they washed the dirt off from between the radiators, they were able to wash the fins a lot better. Hole was patched with aluminum flashing material.

If you do this job, take plenty of pictures and write something up for those of us thinking about doing the same thing. I'm interested!

FIRE UP · 01-14-2016, 02:42 PM

furniss,
Well Sir, I'm one that has removed both the radiator and the CAC for cleaning and, some other maintenance. The first thing one needs to realize when the issue of cleaning one or both of those is, what kind of REAL GOOD ACCESS is there to getting that kind of job done efficiently and accurately WHILE THEY'RE STILL IN THE COACH?? Those who say that neither of those have to be removed for a REAL cleaning, either have phenomenally good access to each and every square inch of both of those units, that is, inside and outside (in between the two) of both units, or, is not cleaning them as good as they think they are.

The "Access" panel, that can be cut into the top of the radiator shroud can help and, many have done it and reported fair to good results. On our coach, an '04 Itasca Horizon 36GD with the C-7 330HP CAT, not only would be a serious pain in the a$$ to cut that access panel, but, even if I did, gaining any additional work space to ACCURATELY and EFFECIENTLY clean ever square inch of those two units, would STILL be impossible.

I have two, removable engine access steel panels. One is large and one is small. Even if and when I remove both of them, it doesn't give me one extra inch of access to the back side of that CAC.

So, my point is, without a doubt, the best way for me to clean mine, accurately and efficiently is to REMOVE BOTH UNITS. Now, I reported on there that it took me about 6 hours to remove them the first time I did it. Well, that was goofing around and taking my time. Plus, those air heads at Freightliner and Winne, completely hid the drain pet cock, INSIDE the radiator frame. So, it was almost completely impossible to get to.

So, I had to drain my system by other means which, took quite a bit longer. Prior to me re-installing everything, I took that crossover pipe and, drilled it welded in a bung for my own pet cock. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better and more efficient.

But, back to the point of cleaning those two. I laid them on a set of saw horses and it still took me a gallon of ZEP industrial Citrus based cleaner/degreaser and, a pressure washer to get them really clean. And, bla, bla, bla, bla, on "don't use a pressure washer, you'll destroy your radiator fins".....

I did it and my fins are straight as arrows. COMMON SENSE is the name of the game here folks.

If one can honestly get every inch of their fins, both sides of both units, thoroughly cleaned, WITHOUT removing either one of them, my hats off to them. My shroud is so tightly sealed around the engine side at or around th engine block and surrounding components, that it's even hard for me to get my 3' lens from my inspection camera in there to check those fins out to see if they need attention.

Good luck on cleaning yours. As for what components to replace while those two units are out. Yep, the serpentine belt, the water pump belt, the serpentine tensioner bearing(s), the water pump belt tensioner bearing, if possible, also the fan bearing( that can be a bit of pain job too) and like has been suggested, I'd maybe jump in there and replace both thermostats too.

All of that is WAAAAAAAAAAAY easier to do when both the radiator and the CAC are out of the way. And, for the record, removing them is really not all that hard. Some of the guys suggest keeping the radiator and CAC bolted together when removing them. Well, I guess if you're the HULK or, SUPERMAN, or, ARNOLD SCHWARTZENAGER when he was YOUNG, maybe it can be done. But, removing mine, one at a time, was tough enough. The radiator itself, with its steel frame, hovers around 50-60 lbs. or so but, it's in an awkward position.

Picking a 50-60 weight, straight up off the concrete is not that big a deal. But, trying to remove from inside it's area behind that coach, is another animal. And that goes for the CAC too. So, removing them individually was best for me.
Scott

1ciderdog · 01-14-2016, 06:09 PM

Scott, I'm one of the guys that has cut an opening in the top of the fan shroud and I do agree that it does not allow me to clean the entire portion of the radiator and charge air cooler but it does allow me to clean the larger portions and increase air flow and cooling ability. In my opinion it is a lot easier to clean than it would be to pull the radiator & CAC. I have not had heating issues but IF I had and the way I clean the radiator & CAC didn't work the next step would be your way.

mel s · 01-15-2016, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIRE UP

furniss,
Well Sir, I'm one that has removed both the radiator and the CAC for cleaning and, some other maintenance. The first thing one needs to realize when the issue of cleaning one or both of those is, what kind of REAL GOOD ACCESS is there to getting that kind of job done efficiently and accurately WHILE THEY'RE STILL IN THE COACH?? Those who say that neither of those have to be removed for a REAL cleaning, either have phenomenally good access to each and every square inch of both of those units, that is, inside and outside (in between the two) of both units, or, is not cleaning them as good as they think they are.
The "Access" panel, that can be cut into the top of the radiator shroud can help and, many have done it and reported fair to good results. On our coach, an '04 Itasca Horizon 36GD with the C-7 330HP CAT, not only would be a serious pain in the a$$ to cut that access panel, but, even if I did, gaining any additional work space to ACCURATELY and EFFECIENTLY clean ever square inch of those two units, would STILL be impossible.
I have two, removable engine access steel panels. One is large and one is small. Even if and when I remove both of them, it doesn't give me one extra inch of access to the back side of that CAC.
So, my point is, without a doubt, the best way for me to clean mine, accurately and efficiently is to REMOVE BOTH UNITS. Now, I reported on there that it took me about 6 hours to remove them the first time I did it. Well, that was goofing around and taking my time.
But, back to the point of cleaning those two. I laid them on a set of saw horses and it still took me a gallon of ZEP industrial Citrus based cleaner/degreaser and, a pressure washer to get them really clean. And, bla, bla, bla, bla, on "don't use a pressure washer, you'll destroy your radiator fins".....
I did it and my fins are straight as arrows. COMMON SENSE is the name of the game here folks.
If one can honestly get every inch of their fins, both sides of both units, thoroughly cleaned, WITHOUT removing either one of them, my hats off to them. My shroud is so tightly sealed around the engine side at or around th engine block and surrounding components, that it's even hard for me to get my 3' lens from my inspection camera in there to check those fins out to see if they need attention.
Good luck on cleaning yours. As for what components to replace while those two units are out. Yep, the serpentine belt, the water pump belt, the serpentine tensioner bearing(s), the water pump belt tensioner bearing, if possible, also the fan bearing( that can be a bit of pain job too) and like has been suggested, I'd maybe jump in there and replace both thermostats too.
All of that is WAAAAAAAAAAAY easier to do when both the radiator and the CAC are out of the way.
Scott

FIRE UP
&
Furniss
I can honestly say that I have been able to clean both my CAC and my radiator SUFFICIENTLY with Extreme Simple Green® and water from a garden hose.
The ONLY reason I periodically clean my CAC/radiator "sandwich" is to prevent overheating.... (NOT to "get every inch of the fins, both sides of both units", thoroughly clean).
On my now 145,000 mile 20 year old rear radiator coach the CAC/radiator "sandwich" has never been removed and I've cut NO access holes/openings through the schrod.

BTW, I've also replaced the serpentine belt, the water pump belt, the serpentine tensioner, (twice), the water pump belt and the coolant thermostat, , with the CAC/radiator in place.
The fan pulley bearing is original, as are the coolant hoses, and there is no water pump belt tensioner pulley on my engine.

Mel
'96 Safari, 250hp 3126 Cat

doorguy · 01-16-2016, 10:26 AM

In 2013, Cashman CAT of Sparks, NV replaced our HEUI pump and I was very impressed with their service and attitude. Recently, while in Reno I sat down with the Service Lead Tech and told him I wanted to pull the rad/cac for a thorough cleaning and I asked him specifically what I might want to replace while I have total access to the front of the engine(we have 71K miles). Along with the tensioner pulleys, serpantine and V-belts, fan hub bearing, he said there is a coolant hose that goes to the HEUI pump and that should be looked at if not replaced. He also said that when you replace any hoses, replace the clamps also. I asked him about the water pump and he said they don't see to many issues with those CAT water pumps. He said there is a weep hole on the bottom which, by design, seeps a little which keeps the bearings lubricated. He said you will normally not notice it, but if it is leaking enough to warrant replacement, you will notice some drippings underneath.

I was all set to tackle the rad/cac removal, but since we are in the throws of an El Nino here in CA, somehow, wrestling around all the metal when it is cold and wet just didn't appeal to me(I do not have a shop). I will wait until March or April. I, previously, cut the hole in the top of the fan shroud which gives me very good access to the back of the rad and both sides of the CAC. I feel my cleanings are very thorough, but I want to be sure by pulling the units.

palehorse89 · 01-16-2016, 10:55 AM

Look here http://www.irv2.com/forums/f26/radia...-255149-3.html at post #31. Mine was not that bad when I pulled mine. Larger HP engines needs all the cooling surface that is there by design. along with a clean CAC cooler to do its job properly. Only the ones that have pulled theirs apart knows what is in between them

I am one of those people

With my 10k trailer behind us...........all the cooling surface is needed along with a clean CAC.
A pressure test on the CAC is also a good thing to perform while out, Have seen a bunch that were leaking and engine suffered max performance.