Shore Power GFI Tripping

[Sky_Boss]

I'll try to keep this simple.

MH has a 50 amp Surge Guard hard wired.

I have it plugged into my storage 20A service via 50-30 then 30-20 converters. This was used with my previous Winnebago with a hard wired PI 50 surge protector.

When I brought the DSPD "home" and plugged it in to keep the batteries charged the SG did it's normal 1 minute delay then allowed the shore power to the coach. Almost immediately after that the shore GFI popped.

Long story short is that to trouble shoot the problem I turned off all breakers in the coach and tried again. No problem. 1 by 1 I added new circuits and loaded them as much as I could and didn't have a problem until I brought the refer circuit up. POP goes the SHORE POWER GFI. HMMM.

I then pulled the ice maker and refer plugs. Reset GFI and plugged in refer...GOOD. Plugged in ice maker...POP!

I have now isolated the problem specifically to the ice maker. BTW...when we had it running on the generator with the ice maker plugged in, it didn't trip a breaker.

So, for the life of me I can not figure out why it is tripping the shore power GFI but not tripping a breaker.

At least it is a simple answer for now...don't use the ice maker. I can live with that.

Any thoughts?

[HHIDan]

I think this is the repair manual for your refrigerator:
http://bryantrv.com/docs2/docs/ncold1200.pdf
Page 59 thru almost the end covers the ice maker with some good troubleshooting tips. There are two valves/solenoids one for water fill and one for eject, one of them looks to be leaking current to gnd (ground fault). The leak can be very minimal befor any GFI will trip.
Good troubleshooting, at least you're very close to the fault. Worst case is a new ice maker and even worst is no more ice for the 4pm beverages...

[vermilye]

All it takes is more than 5ma (.005 amps) between either hot & ground or neutral & ground to trip a GFCI. It tales a fault of 15 or 20 amps to trip a breaker. As Daniel states, I suspect you have a ground fault with your ice maker...

[Jimooo]

Make sure that your wires aren't shorting out in the connector to your ice maker .

I think that on gen power your ground fault is not powered up it is not needed.

[palehorse89]

Plug it into a non-gfi outlet or just change your outlet to a normal one and your problems will go away. A gfi is looking for a inbalance between the hot and neutral and you might just be getting enough of a inbalance to trip it. Just try another outlet and see.

[Paul R. Haller]

As was said by another poster in this tread that a GFCI takes a very small leak to ground to trip. A breaker wont even see .005 amps leak. I had a GFCI in my kitchen that was constantly tripping. I finally got around to tracing out the circuit and found an outdoor outlet that served a sprinkler timer inside a plastic box. I tested it by removing the timer from the circuit. The GFCI still tripped. In desperation, I pulled the duplex outlet ( it came from China and was already installed in a sprinkler box) and with a VOM found a whisper short (5,000 Ohm) to ground leak in the outlet. Turned out the duplex outlet was made in China also and I find many duplex outlets in motor homes and trailers that use similar cheap Chinese made pieces of crap outlets. I have said it before but I wouldn't use a non underwriters lab approved outlet in my house and I wouldn't use one in my trailer. Try replacing that fridge outlet with a decent underwriters approved outlet. Your troubles may go away.
On another note people plugging a 1500 watt heater into one of those crap outlets are asking for a fire. If you saw inside how poorly they are made with no screw lugs or anything other then a bent plated piece of steel to make connections, You too would see they are dangerous. Look in your trailer for cheap Chinese made outlets... if you find them, Replace them immediately and write your manufacturers and tell them you will tell all your friends that they save a dollar a rig and put you and your family at risk.
Homes built in the US require by code an underwriters approved duplex outlet in any box. Why do trailers use inferior Chinese outlets when a sticks and bricks home built here can not use them? There are few codes protecting you from unscrupulous trailer builders and they save a dollar a trailer.
-Paul R. Haller-

[HHIDan]

Originally Posted by palehorse89

Plug it into a non-gfi outlet or just change your outlet to a normal one and your problems will go away.

Sorry, but I disagree. A current leak is an accident waiting to happen. The leak will eventually find its way thru your body. GFI are a must around water (ice maker inlcuded) and most applications outdoors. The OP has done good troubleshooting, he's very close to the fault. Better fix it.
On an aside, I found out over the holidays that an electrician working on a live plug would be fined $5,000. if caught. (Ontario, Canada)
On one more aside, the other day my Water Pik sprayed just a little water on the GFI near by and it immediately tripped....

[palehorse89]

Originally Posted by DBeauchamp

Sorry, but I disagree. A current leak is an accident waiting to happen. The leak will eventually find its way thru your body. GFI are a must around water (ice maker inlcuded) and most applications outdoors. The OP has done good troubleshooting, he's very close to the fault. Better fix it.
On an aside, I found out over the holidays that an electrician working on a live plug would be fined $5,000. if caught. (Ontario, Canada)
On one more aside, the other day my Water Pik sprayed just a little water on the GFI near by and it immediately tripped....

My post was based on the op stated that his shore power was pluged into a gfi. I agree that the ice maker need to be on one but not the Coach's shore power.

[Sky_Boss]

All great help folks.

A few points/thoughts.

1. I don't control the issue regarding the GFI on the shore power outlet. Also...the door to my storage lets water in and that water stand directly under the GFI outlet. Again, it is the shore power GFI that is popping.

2. There is no GFI for the refer/ice maker on the MH. I have been told that in S&B home applications GFI should not be used on residential refers because the initial power draw of the compressor can trip GFIs. Now, I don't have a residential refer in the MH so I'm not sure how that plays. I have the Norcold 1200LRM but maybe not for long.

3. The refer plug in my Winnebago did NOT have a GFI either.

I plan to leave the ice maker unplugged until the weather warms up and I can work on it. I'll look at the schematics and see if I can trace any current leaks. My first guess based on the comments made is to start with the solenoid assembly. It might be easier to go ahead and replace it if it isn't too expensive. I also see in the manual the steps to actually test out the ice maker itself. That shouldn't be too difficult either. Until then, I have lots of other stuff I can do to get my new rig in fighting shape.

[luvlabs]

Some surge protectors will trip the GFI - especially if they are the EMS type. My Progressive EMS will reliably trip the garage GFI outlet. I just plug it into a non-GFI and everything is fine.

Someone else can give you the technical reasons for this but I believe it has to do with the MH having a floating ground.

[CampDaven]

Originally Posted by luvlabs

Some surge protectors will trip the GFI - especially if they are the EMS type. My Progressive EMS will reliably trip the garage GFI outlet. I just plug it into a non-GFI and everything is fine.

Someone else can give you the technical reasons for this but I believe it has to do with the MH having a floating ground.

True, in my experience. I also had where one GFI would trip but not another. Replaced. All good!

[HHIDan]

Originally Posted by luvlabs

Some surge protectors will trip the GFI - especially if they are the EMS type. My Progressive EMS will reliably trip the garage GFI outlet. I just plug it into a non-GFI and everything is fine.

Someone else can give you the technical reasons for this but I believe it has to do with the MH having a floating ground.

Hate to challenge but are you sure it's the surge protector that trips your GFI?
An electric lawn mower has a floating ground also and it is not supposed to trip the GFI, unless it's defective so, unless there is something wrong in your RV, which may or may not cause injury, your RV should not trip a GFI.
AC current is really quite simple, the current going out on the black wire should be exactly the same as the current returning on the white neutral. As soon as there is around .005 amps difference (5 milliamps) the GFI trips. GFIs have nothing to do with the quantity of current, they measure the difference in current between black and white. If the currents are not the same then you have a leak (ground fault) which means current is going in the ground thru another path. If your fingers or any other part of your body comes in contact with anything in that path (which is typically not protected) then you are creating yet another path which will either give you a tingle or a deadly shock.
The OP is lucky that he was using a GFI plug which allowed him to determine there was something wrong in the coach. With a little troubleshooting he has found that it's in the refrigerator somewhere there is a fault. We all know how many connections there are in an RV, a GFI helps you determine one is loose (arcing) or one is shorting...
JMHO. Stay safe.

[luvlabs]

DanielB,

The instructions that came with my Progressive EMS0-HW50C said not to plug it into GFI circuits because it would trip the GFI. This was six years ago when I installed one in my fifth wheel.

I installed a new unit when I got my motorhome but I have not bothered to try and plug it into my garage GFI because of my previous experience. There is no mention of this in the current instructions so I guess I'll give it a try next time the motorhome is home.

[jerryjoe55]

Replace the gfi at the icemaker that corrected my problem and I have Hwh 50 amp surge protector on my coach no further problems