Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×
RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > MOTORHOME FORUMS > MH-General Discussions & Problems
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-15-2021, 05:16 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 640
Something is wrong ...

On our last trip with our semi-new RV I noticed a new problem. Well, perhaps not new in that I have seen something like this before, but was never able to tie it down to specific behavior before.

When I turn on our Xantrex 2000 watt inverter it powers the outlets like it should. When I turn on our LP generator it powers the outlets like it should. So far, so good. But when I start the generator when the inverter is already operating it blows the GFI circuits in those outlets that are GFI outlets (kitchen and bathroom) and they would not reset when I tried. I can turn off the inverter and the problem goes away.

It probably also does that if the generator is running and I turn on the inverter, but that is not something I would normally do since I have no need to turn on the inverter when the generator is working.

We generally dry camp so I am not sure how the three sources, shore power, inverter and generator, interact. Not too long ago I had a new "deck mount" installed in the outlet box to provide the proper voltage for the Lithium batteries that are in the RV, but I am not sure if the problem dates from that or not.

Any suggestions?
AJMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 10-15-2021, 05:22 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
R.Wold's Avatar


 
Newmar Owners Club
Ford Super Duty Owner
Freightliner Owners Club
Retired Fire Service RVer's
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Rosemary Farm, Northern Ca
Posts: 5,319
At a glance Id say something is either wrong with your transfer switch or its wired incorrectly. It should default to the genny so if the inverter is still supplying power to the system when the generator is running thats probably your problem.
__________________
Rich and Terry - Ventana 3427 with HWH Active Air, 1575w solar; 2001 Jeep toad.
R.Wold is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2021, 06:50 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 28,968
Your Xantrex inverter should have its own transfer switch. That should be wired after the factory Auto Transfer Switch ( ATS ) and main breaker panel.

Ii your inverter is being plugged into the shore cord, it may be causing a ground fault when the factory ATS switchs to generator.
twinboat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2021, 07:18 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 640
Quote:
Originally Posted by twinboat View Post
Your Xantrex inverter should have its own transfer switch. That should be wired after the factory Auto Transfer Switch ( ATS ) and main breaker panel.

Ii your inverter is being plugged into the shore cord, it may be causing a ground fault when the factory ATS switchs to generator.
The problem I mentioned does not involve shore power. It happens when the inverter is operating and I turn on the generator, perhaps to run the microwave, and since we rarely stay in commercial RV parks we normally are dry camping in one form or another.
AJMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2021, 08:04 PM   #5
NXR
Senior Member
 
NXR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 3,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJMike
The problem I mentioned does not involve shore power. It happens when the inverter is operating and I turn on the generator, perhaps to run the microwave, and since we rarely stay in commercial RV parks we normally are dry camping in one form or another.
What is the exact model of the Xantrex inverter? Our Freedom XI 2000 watt inverter, as another person noted, has a built-in transfer switch. When 120 volts AC is present from either the generator or shore power, the ATS inside the inverter automatically bypasses the inverter and sends the generator or shore power to the outlets.

What you describe is very odd. What exactly does this mean?

"..it blows the GFI circuits in those outlets that are GFI outlets..."

Is the GFCI protection provided by the outlets itself or do you have an actual GFCI circuit breaker that feeds those outlets, and those are regular-looking outlets?

It kind of sounds like maybe the generator and inverter are both supplying power to the GFCI circuits, which should never happen. I can see how that would trip a GFCI circuit breaker but not how it could trip a GFCI outlet.

Ray
__________________
2020 Forest River Georgetown GT5 34H5
NXR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2021, 08:32 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 28,968
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJMike View Post
The problem I mentioned does not involve shore power. It happens when the inverter is operating and I turn on the generator, perhaps to run the microwave, and since we rarely stay in commercial RV parks we normally are dry camping in one form or another.
Never said it was related to shore power.

How is your inverter wired to the system ?

Some plug the shore cord into the inverter.

If your inverter does not have its own transfer switch, you may be feeding generator power into it.

30 amp RV ATS's default to the shore power cord. When you start the generator, it switchs to that after a 30 second delay. During that switchover the neutral and ground wires get connected together. It's not done with shore power. Doing that creates a ground fault.
twinboat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2021, 08:50 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
R.Wold's Avatar


 
Newmar Owners Club
Ford Super Duty Owner
Freightliner Owners Club
Retired Fire Service RVer's
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Rosemary Farm, Northern Ca
Posts: 5,319
Quote:
Originally Posted by twinboat View Post
Never said it was related to shore power.

How is your inverter wired to the system ?

Some plug the shore cord into the inverter.

If your inverter does not have its own transfer switch, you may be feeding generator power into it.

30 amp RV ATS's default to the shore power cord. When you start the generator, it switchs to that after a 30 second delay. During that switchover the neutral and ground wires get connected together. It's not done with shore power. Doing that creates a ground fault.
Exactly
__________________
Rich and Terry - Ventana 3427 with HWH Active Air, 1575w solar; 2001 Jeep toad.
R.Wold is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2021, 12:13 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
Gulf Streamers Club
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,649
suspicion is the sources conflict, e.g. wave forms NOT in sync w/ each other; I would prefer an ATS in that function, but you apparently have a "manual mode", which should be totally acceptable if you do not try both at once. Best wudda been switch, where no connection of both at same time. Repeated use/ abuse will probably blow something permanently.
__________________
(TerryH.) 2000-GS Conquest Limited 6266 Class-C 99-E450SD V10
THenne1713 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2021, 08:36 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 640
Quote:
Originally Posted by NXR View Post
What is the exact model of the Xantrex inverter? Our Freedom XI 2000 watt inverter, as another person noted, has a built-in transfer switch. When 120 volts AC is present from either the generator or shore power, the ATS inside the inverter automatically bypasses the inverter and sends the generator or shore power to the outlets.
It is a Xantrex Freedom 2000.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NXR View Post
What you describe is very odd. What exactly does this mean?

"..it blows the GFI circuits in those outlets that are GFI outlets..."

Is the GFCI protection provided by the outlets itself or do you have an actual GFCI circuit breaker that feeds those outlets, and those are regular-looking outlets?

It kind of sounds like maybe the generator and inverter are both supplying power to the GFCI circuits, which should never happen. I can see how that would trip a GFCI circuit breaker but not how it could trip a GFCI outlet.
Sorry for the lack of clarity. What I am referring to are the GFCI outlets. There are 2 of them, one in the kitchen and one in the bathroom, and both of them trip and have to be reset. The last time this happened I was unable to reset them, meaning that when I pushed the reset button they just tripped again. This problem disappeared when I turned off the inverter.

To clarify:

if I turn off the inverter before starting the generator I have no problem.

If I forget to turn off the inverter before starting the generator the GFCI outlets trip and if I try to reset them they just trip again.

If I turn off the inverter I can reset the outlets.

Since it is easy enough to work around this problem (just turn off the inverter before starting the generator) it is more annoying than anything else, and since I almost never use the generator (except to run the microwave because it is not hooked up to the inverter, or run the air conditioner) it rarely causes me an issue. Still, it should be fixed so any help would be appreciated. If it due to a bad or mis-wired transfer switch then I will have to have one of the local shops fix it because I have few electrical skills beyond the most basic.
__________________
TAIL WIND: For the RV owner, this is a wind that is blowing in the same direction that the RV is traveling. This is known to be a valid logical concept, but has never been observed in the real world.
AJMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2021, 08:41 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 640
Quote:
Originally Posted by twinboat View Post
Never said it was related to shore power.
Sorry. I thought that was what you were saying here:

Ii your inverter is being plugged into the shore cord, it may be causing a ground fault when the factory ATS switchs to generator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by twinboat View Post

How is your inverter wired to the system ?

Some plug the shore cord into the inverter.

If your inverter does not have its own transfer switch, you may be feeding generator power into it.

30 amp RV ATS's default to the shore power cord. When you start the generator, it switchs to that after a 30 second delay. During that switchover the neutral and ground wires get connected together. It's not done with shore power. Doing that creates a ground fault.
I am not sure I can answer your question other than to say that whatever switchover is supposed to happen, it is supposed to be automatic. There is no manual cord for me to plug into the system when I run the generator.
__________________
TAIL WIND: For the RV owner, this is a wind that is blowing in the same direction that the RV is traveling. This is known to be a valid logical concept, but has never been observed in the real world.
AJMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2021, 12:38 PM   #11
NXR
Senior Member
 
NXR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 3,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJMike
It is a Xantrex Freedom 2000.
Are there any letters? I see a "Freedom X 2000", a "Freedom XC 2000", and a "Freedom SW 2000" but no "Freedom 2000".

Ray
__________________
2020 Forest River Georgetown GT5 34H5
NXR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2021, 02:33 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 640
Quote:
Originally Posted by NXR View Post
Are there any letters? I see a "Freedom X 2000", a "Freedom XC 2000", and a "Freedom SW 2000" but no "Freedom 2000".

Ray
I believe that it was just Freedom X 2000 and that is what the title on the manual says.
__________________
TAIL WIND: For the RV owner, this is a wind that is blowing in the same direction that the RV is traveling. This is known to be a valid logical concept, but has never been observed in the real world.
AJMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2021, 05:56 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Beaver Dam, Wisconsin
Posts: 2,698
Only one of these power sources may be connected at the same time: shore power, generator power, and inverter power. As posted above, out of phase connection of two sources is dangerous.

There is an exception. Some high end inverters are capable of synchronizing with either the shore power or the generator power.

I looked up Xantrax 2000 and found dozens of models. The 2000 may mean 2000 watts, and there are many different configurations. This inverter may be:
FreedomX1000120VAC12VDC 817-1000
FreedomX2000120VAC12VDC 817-2000
FreedomX3000120VAC12VDC 817-3000
FreedomX2000120VAC24VDC 817-2000-21

https://www.xantrex.com/documents/Po...Rev-F)_ENG.pdf

This model contains a transfer switch. It does not synchronize itself to the incoming power source. If inverter is drawing 12 volt power, converting it to 120 volt power and trying to supply it to an already powered circuit, all kinds of bad thing may happen including smoke and fire.

Both generator and inverter should have a ground connection between the neutral and the system ground (bonded). The bonding must be disconnected by the respective transfer switches when that device is disconnected. Bonding internal to the RV must be disconnected for shore power use. Bonding must be at the power source.

An outlet type GFI trips when the current in the outlet hot wire (black or L1) is not identical to the current in the neutral (white) wire. If a hot or neutral touches a ground, the GFI will trip because current flows in the ground wire instead of the hot or neutral.

If both the generator and the inverter have a working bond, it can change the current flow in the neutral wire and trip a branch circuit GFI.

I expect there is a ground wiring error or one of the transfer switches is not bonding properly.
__________________
Paul Bristol
Kodiak Cub 176RD
Nissan Pathfinder 2015
Persistent is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Battery was low...did I do something wrong??? fansill MH-General Discussions & Problems 6 07-18-2012 05:49 PM
Darn it - one of us is doing something wrong RVee'r Just Conversation 13 01-21-2010 11:00 PM
GPS-must be doing something wrong Dona and Elvin Technology: Internet, TV, Satellite, Cell Phones, etc. 14 08-04-2007 12:32 PM
Something Is Wrong With This Picture! Lug_Nut Newmar Owner's Forum 21 04-14-2007 03:22 AM
If you do something wrong and it's your fault, JRBurn Toy Haulers Discussion 8 02-11-2007 04:48 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.