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SylSabastian · 11-03-2020, 03:28 PM

Need help please to identify what's causing the engine to not idle and overheatingry/drainage of starting battery.
I just bought it and it was idling when I inspected it. Engine sounds very good and strong. But it had trouble idling when put in gear. I figured it was likely because it had been standing for two years with periodic starts only. Old and maybe dirty fuel. I drove it a few blocks and it died with all the symptoms of running out of fuel. Fuel guage not working. But filled it up and needed only 18 gallons to fill. After filling it started again but would only run for 10 to 20 seconds.
This continued untill I replaced the 2 6-volt house batteries with two 12-volt batteries, making sure as best I could to connect them correctly. Still not sure if they are. I've attached pictures for checking.
After the new house batteries and checking and fully charging the engine battery and a few starts it started running longer, but still not idling which was needed to check alternator at Autozone.
After the starts I jump started with thick jumper cables and had it running for a good couple of mins, still while jumpers and still no idle. On easing carefully to try to get idle the engine backfired from the carb and died, this time no dash lights when turning key again. A new development. Also we noticed jumper cables were super hot, smoking. Also a new development.
Checked and tested engine battery again, then on restarting, with jumping, the negative cable on the engine battery started to heat. So removed the alternator to check it. It checked out good including the internal voltage regulator. The guy testing thinks the problem may lie in a second external voltage regulator. I don't know if this could be or not, or if it is where this voltage regulator would be and what it looks like. Or if there is some other cause.
I'm not sure the batteries are connected properly and also how much heat to expect in the engine battery cable. Also, after running for a bit the engine battery gets drained, why it seemed the alternator might be the problem.
I'm looking for any and all help and suggestions as I am stuck in the Autozone parking lot in Taylor'sville where as yet I am unable to get an on-site mechanic to come out. Trying to avoid this or getting it towed to a repair shop as funds are very tight.

Ah, also put fuel cleaner in tank and the more it ran the longer and better it runs. Fuel pump in rear is working.
Hope I supplied enough info. 😋
Thanks,
Syl.

arcaguy · 11-03-2020, 04:00 PM

Not starting or idling is generally not an electrical issue. I don't think that "Jumping" the coach from the house batteries is a good idea. Jumper cables are made to get a vehicle started and to be disconnected. Now to what I think your problem is. It sounds like a fuel delivery problem. When vehicles start and just run for a short while it is indicative of lack of fuel. One way to test this is to start the vehicle with the air cleaner off and when it begins to stumble spray a little starting fluid in the carburetor. If it continues to run for a couple of minutes and when you stop spraying the starting fluid it dies that pretty much confirms that fuel delivery is the issue. The first thing to check is the fuel filter and you may have more than one. If you remove them and can't blow through them or there is a bunch of crap comes out of the inlet side that's a pretty good indication they were plugged. Many times a vehicle will start and run for a few minutes until the filter plugs up and then stop. After it sits for a couple of minutes some of the crap settles and it will run again for a short while. I believe this is what happened to you. That's where I would start especially given the age of the coach.

SylSabastian · 11-03-2020, 04:20 PM

Thanks for the reply. They jump was from my Astro van. Things got better after replacing the house batteries, the old ones were dead. Hasn't helped for internal lights etc but that's not critical now.
The fuel delivery has improved completely and doesn't seem to be a problem as it ran fine just wouldn't idle. Haven't run it long enough for the fuel cleaner added to tank to work through fully.
It dies when the battery gets drained with no dash lights, why we thought the alternator might not be working, but it's fine. Why the thought is about the voltage regulator.
Yeah, tried the starting fluid spray to alternator when about to die on the last go, but was just to slow and then that backfire from carb and it died with the warm neg cable on engine battery. Then took out alternator to test and it's good. Busy putting it back. Then will try again, but would like to be sure the batteries are all connected correctly.

MinntoMich · 11-03-2020, 04:37 PM

Your pics did not upload and I have no idea where Taylorsville is but I hope the weather is at least in your favor. It sounds like you bought a problem and the way your post read it sounds like you have several things going on. I have no idea where a second, external voltage regulator would be or if there is one.

Your cables should not be "smoking" hot. IMO, either your chassis battery is shot, you've hooked up something backwards or the chassis battery itself is shorting out. If your not careful, your Fleetwood is going to be a Flambeau.

Have you replaced the chassis battery? I know you've replaced the coach batteries. Start thinking slowly and go through those battery connections again. Have that engine battery load tested or replace it. That's where I would start.

SylSabastian · 11-03-2020, 05:38 PM

The engine battery was charged and tested by Autozone and is good. It was the jumper cables which got smoking hot when jumping from my van and the engine for a couple of minutes. Then when starting and running again after that with no jump the neg cable on engine battery was just warm after a little bit, but did not want to go further in case that's a prob. That when decided to test the alternator S battery drains dead after running for a bit. But alternator okay. I'm not sure if there is a bit of heat in the cable normally or not. Once I have the alt back in will try again and see and will report back.
I'll try again on the pics as I'd sure like to know if all 3 batteries are connected properly.
Taylor'sville is in Salt Lake City and yes thankfully the weather is great. 😀

MinntoMich · 11-04-2020, 12:00 AM

I'm wondering if your alternator is really charging. Curious to see that if you put a multimeter on each battery as its running what kind of voltage you would see. If your batteries appear to be okay and the parts store says the alternator is okay then why would you be running down that chassis battery?

With a multimeter on your battery and the engine running you should see 14+ volts going back into that battery with the assumption being made that your belt is tight and in good condition.

The Champion battery must be the chassis battery. It looks like everything is hooked up decent with the exception of the shared negative between the chassis and coach batteries. On my MH they are in seperate compartments. Maybe thats okay, IDK. To me it looks like the negative post on the chassis battery is cracked.

I'm thinking your alternator is between 130 to 180 amps. Heat in your cables means resistance. Check/clean those connections/cables.

153stars · 11-04-2020, 09:56 AM

Idle on fuel injected motor is controlled by idle control valve/solenoid. Most times removing it and washing it and it's port down with carb cleaner will fix it don't move plunger by hand. At that time wash down throttle body carbon that form around ports and plates. Pull PVC give it a shake should rattle if free , then wash it down. Stuck EGR valve will make idle bad generally run like crap. Look around for vacuum leaks cracked hoses.

SylSabastian · 11-04-2020, 11:49 AM

Ah, excellent, I'll do that soon as I figure out where that is and what it looks like. That would certainly explain many of the symptoms.
Thanks for the response.

MinntoMich · 11-04-2020, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SylSabastian

Ah, excellent, I'll do that soon as I figure out where that is and what it looks like. That would certainly explain many of the symptoms.
Thanks for the response.

I'm confused. Your earlier post seemed to indicate you had a carbuerated 454. Is it a TBI?

SylSabastian · 11-04-2020, 01:35 PM

Ah, excellent, I'll do that soon as I figure out where that is and what it looks like. That would certainly explain many of the symptoms.
Thanks for the response.

SylSabastian · 11-04-2020, 02:47 PM

Yes, it is a carburetted Chevy 454. I am new to engines in general, just know the basics, so don't know what a TBI or where it's located. Same for the idle control to clean that.

Update, I replaced the alternator, and lol, wanted a day trying to figure out how to get the belt fitted. Turns out the auto parts guys gave me one a couple of inches too short.

After replacing the alternator I disconnected the two house batteries cause I am not sure they are connected properly. I had kept the wiring the same as before with the two dead 6-votls but adjusting for the two new 12-volts. Not sure previous was correct as nothing worked inside even with the little juice that was still in old batteries.

Now starting again without the house batteries connected the engine starts fine but dies after 10 seconds or so again. Seems that something which is needed to run depends on the house batteries.

Looking for photos of 1990 Fleetwood Southwind battery connections, hopefully with 3 12-volts connected, two for house and one for engine as there are the two circuit switches inside for that.

I emailed Fleetwood for all information, manuals, schematics etc they can send but haven't heard back yet.

I checked the neg post on the engine battery and it's just scratched, not cracked.

153stars · 11-04-2020, 05:29 PM

SORRY I can't be sure what they installed for sure , but 1990 normal trucks should be TBI " throttle body injection " 7.4 after 88 unless they carried motors over from 87 not surprise me ???. It may have an air cleaner that looks like its on a carb they kind of look like carb with air cleaner on. NOTE If it has a carb it will not have IAC valve. Pic of TBI
https://images.app.goo.gl/zSsdjjFy9gFQZVGz9

SylSabastian · 11-04-2020, 07:09 PM

Thanks for the pic. 😀 Yeah I don't have anything like that. I took a pic of what I do have, no lights ATM so not the best but will confirm the carb.
So I hooked all the batteries up again, like I had it when it started and ran past 10 seconds or so but made no difference. Still dies after ten secs no gas.
The pump in the back is running.
When it did run past 10 secs or so is when it had the jumper cables to my van and both were running. Why that would make a difference makes no sense.
I don't have any house power despite those being brand new batteries. But not too worried about they, need to get it moving.
I re-read all the comments again to see if I missed something I can do.

MinntoMich · 11-04-2020, 10:02 PM

If you have a carbed 454 of that vintage then you should have 2 fuel pumps. One electric in the tank and one mechanical, up front and alongside the block. 153stars is making a good point. Are we sure of the year? 90' should have a throttle body fuel injection setup. Did someone replace the TBI with a carbuerator?

Now it starts with only the chassis battery hooked up but won't stay running for more than 10 seconds? Are we sure on the alt/batt situation?
I mean you know its charging the battery. So many things it could be but I would begin by breaking it down by if its an air, fuel or fire problem. Saying that because... "Still dies after ten secs no gas." No gas as in no fuel in the bowl? No fuel squirting into the carb when you pull back the throttle linkage? Before you get overwhelmed have you replaced the fuel filter? I've read that old gasoline looses its octane after sitting for awhile. That fuel system cleaner is going to knock stuff loose and plug up a filter on a tank that already had 3/4 worth of 2 year old (or more) gas.